IPv4 and Auctions

Thu Oct 24 13:14:03 UTC 2019

I agree that why would you return something that has value that you can sell, but isn’t there the requirement that you have a justification for the IP addresses when you got them from ARIN? And if you can now sell them and in some cases sell large blocks of them, either someone lied to a RIN to get them and you didn’t actually need them, or you’ve been holding onto them and you don’t actually have a justification for them.

You don’t suddenly just not need a/8 or suddenly not need a/21.

> On Oct 24, 2019, at 9:02 AM, Matt Harris <matt at netfire.net> wrote:
> 
>> On Thu, Oct 24, 2019 at 7:08 AM Matt Hoppes <mattlists at rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
> 
>> A thought crossed my mind the other day as I was having a discussion with someone. 
>> 
>> Every entity is suppose to justify their need for IPv4 address space from ARIN. This was always (in recent history) the case. 
>> 
>> No entity is suppose to be given more IPv4 space until they have nearly exhausted their previous space. 
> 
> A lot of entities received very large allocations prior to depletion being a concern. A lot of entities received very large allocations prior to NAT even being a thing. Back in the late 90s/early 00s, lots of very large scale projects were going on in very large organizations to get away from every desktop, PC, and printer having a world-routable IPv4 address. 
> 
> Interestingly, that came with a shift in mentality away from having firewalls at various borders - a mentality we really need to resurrect on a lot of networks as IPv6 takes off. 
> 
>> How is it, then, that we daily for the last 2-3 years have places like Hilco that have sometimes 15-20 large IPv4 blocks up for auction?
>> 
>> Supposedly we are completely out of IPv4 space, yet every day large blocks are being sold for money, yet they were never returned because they weren’t needed. 
> 
> Why would you return an asset that has value when you could sell it instead? I mean, look, I'm all for charity, but this is hardly feeding any orphans or curing any diseases or sending any talented low income kids to NANOG. 
> 
> Besides the fact that from the standpoint of the RIR, processing transfers is less hassle than processing a return and then keeping wait lists going indefinitely. Better to shift focus to IPv6 as far as allocating space goes, and let folks like Hilco worry about lining up buyers and sellers for IPv4 space. Remember, Hilco makes more profit on facilitating those transactions than an RIR most likely would with their fee structures that are designed to keep them functioning efficiently, not to keep them engaged in cumbersome legacy businesses. 
> 
>> Another thought: being that IPv4 address space is essentially leased to you from ARIN, can you even legally auction your space to someone else? I know it’s happening, but it would almost be like me auctioning my apartment to another random person.
> 
> 
> Legally speaking, the RSA with ARIN is not particularly similar to most rental housing contracts. 
> 
> Besides that, many apartment leases do allow sub-letting or transferring the lease, as well. 
> 
> Take care,
> Matt
> 
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