A Zero Spam Mail System [Feedback Request]

Viruthagiri Thirumavalavan giri at dombox.org
Mon Feb 18 02:03:32 UTC 2019

Hello Everyone,

My name is Viruthagiri Thirumavalavan. I'm the guy who proposed SMTP over
TLS on Port 26
month. I'm also the guy who attacked (???) John Levine.

Today I have something to show you.

Long story short.... I solved the email spam problem. Well... Actually I
solved it long time back. I'm just ready to disclose it today. Again...

Yeah.. Yeah.. Yeah... If only I had a dime for every time people insult me
for saying "I solved the spam problem"

They usually start with the insult like "You think you are the inventor of

These guys always are the know-it-all assholes. They don't listen. They
don't want to listen. They are like barking dogs. If one started to bark,
everyone else gets the courage to do the same thing.

I'm tired of fighting these assholes in every mailing list.  I'm on your
side morons. So how about you all knock it off?

Six months back, it was John Levine who humiliated me in the DMARC list.
Apparently, for him 50 words are enough to attack me.

Töma Gavrichenkov and Suresh Ramasubramanian even started to defend this
man saying 50 words are enough to judge a 50,000 words paper.  [We are
gonna figure it out today]


@Töma Gavrichenkov

In theory, I can easily recall a few cases in my life when going
> through just 50 words was quite enough for a judgment.

How can you be so sure that you didn't fuck up none of the lives of these
"few cases"? Or in more technical terms, How can you be absolutely sure
that there is no "False Positives"?


@Suresh Ramasubramanian

Yes, 50 words are more than enough to decide a bad idea is bad.  You don't
> have to like that, or like any of us, but facts are facts

Merely appending the text "facts are facts" not gonna convert a bullshit
statement into a fact.

You know what's the meaning of the word "fact"? It's a statement that can
be proved TRUE.

Let's do a little experiment. 100 researchers presents their lifetime work
to us. Each of their research paper contain 50,000 words. We are gonna
judge them.

You are gonna judge them based on only the first 50 words. And I'm gonna
judge them by tossing a coin. Can you guess who is gonna fuck up less
number of researcher lives?

I'm claiming that I solved the email spam problem. If that's true, then you
should know, common sense is one of the very basic requirement for that.

I designed my email system. Every inch of it. I wrote my research paper.
Every word of it. I made my prototype video. Every second of it. So I'm the
captain of my ship. Not you. But you all think you know my system better
than me? That too, with only 50 words?

My research paper has around 50,000 words. And you think 50 words are
enough to judge my work? Let me make sure I get this right. You are all
saying, you know what's in the rest of the 49,950 words based on only the
first 50 words? That's stupid on so many levels.

If you are gonna do a half-assed job and relay that misinformation to
thousands of people, why volunteer in the first place? And by the way, by
saying you are all doing half-assed job, I'm actually insulting the people
who are REALLY doing the half-assed job.


John Levine vs. me

One month back, some of you may have noticed a thread created by John Levine
where he goes like "He's Forum Shopping". The whole gist of that message
was "We already have DANE and MTA-STS. We don't a third solution". And then
I used some harsh words to defend myself. But that was the Season 2 of his
"Shitshow". The Season 1 was aired 6 months back. You all missed that show.
This is what happened in Season 1.

   1. Six months back, I posted on three mailing list saying "I solved the
   email spam problem" and asked them to provide feedback on my invention.
   Those three mailing lists were SPF, DKIM and DMARC. That's because my
   solution relied on them and those three were the only email related mailing
   lists I knew at that time.
   2. In DMARC community, John Levine started to insult me after reading
   only the first 50 words.
   3. Dave Crocker joined the cast and did a flawless job on abusing me. He
   asked me to kill my project. I told him he is being rude. And this is what
   he replied for that <https://www.dombox.org/nanog/dave.png>. He is one
   of the most radical and ignorant person I have seen in tech. He didn't even
   stop for a moment and think "Am I attacking an Innocent person?". He even
   went to other mailing lists to attack me. He abused all his power and kept
   on attacking me just to have some "dopamine orgasm". Something tells me he
   slept peacefully on that day.
   4. And then bunch of other guys joined. So the whole thread gone crazy.
   This is because John Levine successfully distributed wrong version of the
   story to thousands of people with only 50 words.
   5. Both Dave Crocker and John Levine are the bigshots there. So I knew
   no matter how much I cry for help, no one is gonna help me.
   6. John seemed like a "decent-asshole" while compared to Dave Crocker.
   So I sent a private mail to John saying "John, I'm not really sure whether
   I can afford you since I have not raised any money yet. But let me give it
   a shot. Could you tell me how much you would charge to go through my
   presentation, demo video and give me a detailed feedback about my system?"
   [The reason I was ready to pay him is because he made it very clear in the
   DMARC thread by saying "Sorry, but I don't provide consulting for free".  I
   thought if I make him read my document, he would go back and correct his
   7. And this is what he replied for that. "Really, even if you had money,
   it wouldn't be worth your money or my time". [For the record, he come to
   this conclusion without even knowing what's inside in my document]
   8. I said only "ok, thankyou" and then unsubscribed from the DMARC
   mailing list. [What more can you argue with a bunch of know-it-all morons
   who thinks they are all right?]
   9. Six month later (last month), John started his shitshow again
   attacking my IETF proposal. He tried to make me look like an idiot again.
   And that's when I started to defend myself by using harsh words.
   10. You all know the rest.


One person told me on that thread to take John Levine's words as criticism.

You see I have no problems with criticism. I usually thank people when they
criticize my work. The best criticism usually follows this format.

"I went through your paper (#1), your work is full of shit (#2), Here are
the reasons (#3)"

#1 says, the critic really knows what the author is talking about.
#2 says, the critic is speaking his mind without any bullshit.
#3 says, the critic has valid points for his criticism.

However, I can't consider someone as critic who straightly go for #2.
Especially when the whole argument was all about killing my work just
because he is one of the inventor of MTA-STS.

If I start to listen his words, then next time he will create a new thread
to attack me for creating <this thread> saying "He's forum shopping. I
already told him it's not worth his money and my time". What you want me to
do in this case? Take that as criticism and move on? It's my 5 fucking
years of research. I can't just let it go just because someone doesn't like
my work.


@Valdis Kletnieks

You missed the part where the RFC says you *MUST* fall back to A if there's
> no MX.

 "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself; Therefore all progress
depends on the unreasonable man" - George Bernard Shaw

@John Levine

I was trying to contribute to IETF the other day. One of the guy from DMARC
list uses your words as a reason to attack me
<https://www.dombox.org/nanog/utaattack.png> and asking me to turn down the
proposal. You were watching that.

If I really solved the email spam problem, that puts me in the "best
problem solvers in the world" category.  So how about you go back to the
DMARC list and write a decent apology for posting misinformation to
everyone? [Of course only if I solved the spam problem. That was my claim
from the beginning right?]



Here is what you all should know.

It's my 5 years of research. So it's worth more than 50 words. I started my
work back in 2013 and I used to call my work "XMail" at that time. It's now
called "Dombox"

My prototype codebase has around 200,000 lines of code. [To be exact:
466,965 ++  254,169 --]

Sequoia Capital is one of the well known venture firm in the world. They
have invested in over 250 companies since 1972, including Apple, Google,
Oracle, PayPal, Stripe, YouTube, Instagram, Yahoo! and WhatsApp. Bill
Coughran <https://www.sequoiacap.com/people/bill-coughran/> is a senior
investor in Sequoia Capital. According to his linkedin profile, he started
as a Programmer in the late 60s and held many engineering related positions
over the years. Worked in Bell Laboratories for 20 years. Worked as SVP of
Engineering in Google for 8.5 years. To quote his words "I have some level
of expertise about the current email systems, which is why I was did some
investigating". So this man is one of the toughest person to impress. But
he is one of the nicest investor I have met. When I asked him whether he
can take a look, he didn't insult me with words like "You think you are the
inventor of FUSSP?" He just told me "Sure, I'd be happy to." He went
through my entire paper and then sent me this mail
<https://www.dombox.org/nanog/billcoughran.png>. He later turned me down
because it's hard for a startup to distribute a new solution. Maybe he is
right. Or maybe I'll overcome that too. [Today's discussion is about
whether I solved the spam problem. Not about how I'm gonna distribute the

Yesterday I published my work on a medium blog post and linked my white
paper. An engineer read my white paper and sent me this mail

These guys see value in my white paper because they completed my ~300 pages
white paper.

To the "50 words are enough" band members, let me tell you something. I'm
the author of my work. It's my job to decide "what to show you" and "when
to show you". I have posted my system summary in a medium blog post. When
you reach 75% of the article, you will see a title called "Hot Gates
Strategy". Everything you see above is pointless without the remaining 25%
of the content. Put it this way, I have designed 75% of that system, only
to have remaining 25% of the system. So yeah, even if you had 75% of the
content, you still can't judge my work.

Whether you all believe it or not, I'm the goddamn inventor of FUSSP.  I
can proudly say that because my system doesn't have the "spam" folder. So
how about you all appreciate the guy who spent 5 years in chasing for a
solution like a madman and succeeded in solving a challenging problem
rather than spending your time in attacking me? [For the record, my single
white paper plenty of problems. Email Spam is one of them]

Looking forward to hear your feedback. People who complete my white paper,
please post whether my claims are true or I'm just wasting everyone's time.

[I'm going to bed now. So I may not be online for the next 8 hours. I'll
respond to your queries after that]




System Overview -

White Paper - https://www.dombox.org/dombox.pdf

Flowcharts - https://www.dombox.org/flowcharts.pdf

Prototype - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK2eSfCurx4 [This is the video
I uploaded before posting to DMARC list. So the interface is little

Best Regards,

Viruthagiri Thirumavalavan
Dombox, Inc.
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