Last Mile Design

Fletcher Kittredge fkittred at
Mon Feb 11 14:26:31 UTC 2019

For my fellow americans, LLUB stands for Local Loop UnBundling. What we
might call a Unbundled Network Element.

On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 5:49 AM Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike at> wrote:

> On Mon, 11 Feb 2019, Mark Tinka wrote:
> >> In any case, we are now building out our own fiber to cover the gaps
> >> left by TDC. Here the end user has to pay DKK 12,000 (USD 1,824 / EUR
> >> 1,608) one time fee and with that he gets everything including 5 years
> >> of free internet. This works out at DKK 200 / month including 25% VAT
> >> tax (USD 30 / EUR 27).
> >
> > Very interesting - don't you feel that an initial outlay like that could
> > put some potential customers off? Then again, per capita income in
> > Denmark, I'd imagine, could allow most to think about this. If all that
> > buys me Internet access for 5 years before I have to shell out anymore
> > wedge, I'd do it.
> In Sweden it's very common that people who live in detached house areas
> have to pay 1500-3000EUR to get attached to the fiber network as it's
> being built out. There are even bank loans you can get to pay for this,
> and pay it off over time. It's considered to be a good deal because it
> improves the value of the house as well as a huge improvement over having
> satellite-dish/terrestrial TV and ADSL/LTE for Internet access, now
> instead you can pay 30-40EUR a month to get a everything over the fiber.
> Now, I like the LLUB model where ISPs get access to the dark fiber all the
> way to the customer, and we do have that here as well, just not as
> commonly as I'd like. That's where
> comes from where they offer 10GE for 50EUR a month. This is done on Telia
> LLUB:ed dark fiber which costs around 15EUR a month (regulated price).
> It's a great PR case for "dark fiber access rocks and bitstream sucks".
> You get IPv6 in there as well, which isn't commonly available on most of
> the bitstream access services (because not only do we not do PON, we don't
> do PPPoE either here in Sweden).
> So it's a mixed bag and pricing and functionality could definitely be
> better, but the FTTH rollout has gone quite well here and it's as usual
> 10-15 different factors contributing but the willingness of the population
> who lives in houses to fork out 1500-3000EUR for fiber install has made
> this a lot less cash flow misery for the ISPs that roll this out. I just
> wish there would have been a requirement for everybody to actually rent
> this dark fiber out (which there isn't unless you're one of the biggest
> players) because after paying those 1500-3000EUR and you ask the fiber
> installation company "who owns this fiber?" they say "we do" and if you
> ask "ok, I'd like it connected to someone else" they will say "huh? what
> do you mean". There is an unfortunate common conflation between the fiber
> optic cable and the services offered on it.
> --
> Mikael Abrahamsson    email: swmike at

Fletcher Kittredge
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