MAP-E

Sat Aug 3 09:29:30 UTC 2019

    > The cost of sharing IPs in a static way, is that services such as 
    > SonyPlaystation Network will put those addresses in the black list, 
    > so you need to buy more addresses. This hasn’t been the case for 
    > 464XLAT/NAT64, which shares the addresses dynamically.

    A problem of dynamic sharing is that logging information to be
    used for such purposes as crime investigation becomes huge.

-> Of course, everything has good and bad things, but with NAT444 you need to do the same, and because if you deploy 464XLAT you have less than 25% (and going down) of your traffic with IPv4, your cost for logging decreases. I'm assuming that you follow for IPv6 RIPE690 recommendations and you do persistent prefixes to customers, otherwise you also need IPv6 logging (but this is not different regardless of what transition mechanism you use).

    > Furthermore, if some users need less ports than others, you 
    > "infra-utilize" those addresses,

    Users needing more ports should pay more money and share an
    IP address with smaller number of users.

-> I don't agree. Users don't know if they need more or less ports, and this is something that may happen dynamically, depending on what apps are you using in your home, or if it is Xmas and you have extra family at home. This is not good for users, is not good for ISPs. If ISPs want to provide "different" services they should CLEARLY say it: "Dear customer, you have two choices 4.000 ports, 16.000 ports or all the ports for you with a single IP address". Otherwise you're cheating to customers, which in many countries is illegal, because providing a reduced number of ports IS NOT (technically) Internet connectivity, is a reduced functionality of Internet connectivity, and you must (legally) advertise it and of course, most customers don't understand that!

    > which again is not the case for 464XLAT/NAT64. Each user gets 
    > automatically as many ports as he needs at every moment.

    Unless all the ports are used up.

-> That's right, but you need to calculate a sufficient number of IPv4 addresses for your pool (which for sure will be lower than in MAP or lw4o6 or DS-Lite), and even if your number of customers go up, because more and more services are available with IPv6, your number of IPv4 will not keep growing. If you define 4.000 ports per customer, some customers may be using only 300 ports (average) and that means that you're infra-utilizing 3,700 ports x number of users with that average. Not good!

    Thus, even with dynamic port assignment, users needing more
    ports should pay more money and share an IP address with
    smaller number of users.

-> Never we should have charged users for IP addresses. This is a bad business model. Is not technically a good thing to provide non-persistent addresses. If we keep saying that, we will end up providing a single IPv6 address to every customer and doing NAT again. If an ISP want to do that, fine, but the competitors will be smarter (hopefully!).

    					Masataka Ohta

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