AS Numbers unused/sitting for long periods of time
owen at delong.com
Wed Jan 3 16:44:06 UTC 2018
Steve’s situation was relatively unique and arduous. It was also resolved
several years ago.
Yes, if you have difficulty authenticating as a legitimate administrator of
the resource, it can be difficult to convince ARIN you should be updating
the contact data on said resource. Hopefully everyone here can see how that
is a desirable thing. I’m quite glad that ARIN makes it difficult for people
who aren’t me to update my resource records.
As to the issue raised regarding unused ASNs, there are several possibilities
not yet considered IMHO:
1. There were private networks built before private ASNs existed.
2. There were private networks built that needed ASN coordination
and include more ASNs than there were private 16-bit ASNs.
3. While private ASNs may be a solution for some private networks,
there are other cases where they may not be well suited. Such
cases can legitimately use public ASNs.
4. NO single view, nor even any collection of views available to
any one entity can be considered a complete routing table for
the entire internet.
Are there ASNs that were issued prior to the creation of ARIN that may languish?
Yes. Probably a few thousand.
All ASNs issued since the creation of ARIN come with an annual fee being paid to
ARIN which means that the ASN isn’t languishing unless someone is paying the fee
for the ASN and/or related resources each year. So in the case of companies that
no longer exist, if you report your suspicions to ARIN, they’ll investigate and
reclaim the ASNs if they can be certain that the organizations are no longer
valid. In the case of ASNs issued in the last 20 years, that’s as easy as checking
that the invoice got paid by someone. ASNs issued prior to 1997 are a much harder
problem to solve.
Personally, I don’t think there’s enough value to the community in a few thousand
ASNs to make it worth the cost involved in ARIN going out and reclaiming them
aggressively. A few years ago, we added 4,294,901,760 ASNs to the original pool
of 65,536 ASNs. (This includes both public and private in both cases). None of
those 4 billion new ASNs will languish as they are all issued under an annual fee.
As such, I see little or no value in trying to reclaim the few thousand ASNs that
might be subject to such a policy.
> On Jan 3, 2018, at 07:12 , Mike Hammett <nanog at ics-il.net> wrote:
> I updated all applicable records for a new client in the past month. Didn't seem that difficult. *shrugs*
> I did have control of the email server for the domain in the POCs, though.
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Noble" <snoble at sonn.com>
> To: nanog at nanog.org
> Sent: Tuesday, January 2, 2018 5:11:57 PM
> Subject: Re: AS Numbers unused/sitting for long periods of time
> Inaccurate whois data from ARIN is not a good way to tell anything as
> ARIN is terrible to deal with when you need to update an address or
> phone number or anything. I know personally as I had to fight for years
> to update the data on an ASN that ARIN was billing me to manage the data
>> Chris Adams <mailto:cma at cmadams.net>
>> January 2, 2018 at 2:56 PM
>> I know of two (from a former job) that pre-date ARIN that haven't been
>> used since 1999 because those two companies no longer exist (nor AFAIK
>> does any successor company). The whois information is bogus at this
>> point, but I couldn't prove that.
>> I expect that AS numbers allocated by ARIN and other current RIRs are
>> not abandoned like that (since they charge annual fees, and I assume
>> they reclaim for non-payment), so the number of abandoned AS numbers is
>> probably not growing significantly (and would not grow beyond the
>> pre-RIR pool).
>> With 32 bit AS numbers though, what's the point of making an effort to
>> reclaim the old AS numbers? BGP4 has been shown to handle alternate
>> length AS numbers, so if somehow 4 billion are allocated, it probably
>> won't be a big deal to extend BGP again.
>> James Breeden <mailto:James at arenalgroup.co>
>> January 2, 2018 at 2:46 PM
>> Before I take this to the ARIN PPML, wanted to get NANOG's thoughts.
>> I'm amazed at the number of AS numbers that are assigned, but not
>> actively being used. I'm not talking just like they are offline for a
>> week or month, this is complete non-use of the AS in the global
>> routing table within *years*. They are completely abandoned resources
>> - Whois data is inaccurate by 5-10 years, no routeviews data in the
>> same time period, the owning organization (if you can find it)
>> scratches their heads about responding whether they use it or not, etc.
>> I know we're currently not in a push to get AS numbers or close to
>> exhaustion, but I do believe that people who have global AS numbers
>> should have a requirement to use them or return them to the global
>> pool. Am I the only one thinking this?
>> And before you come back with "Well they may be using it internally
>> where it doesn't need to be in the GRT" - that's why we have Private
>> AS numbers.
>> I.e. some form of ARIN or global policy that basically says "If AS
>> number not routed or whois updated or used in 24 months, said AS
>> number can be public noticed via mailing list and website and then
>> revoked and reissued to a pending, approved AS request"
>> Just thinking aloud. Happy New Year all!
>> James W. Breeden
>> Managing Partner
>> Arenal Group: Arenal Consulting Group | Acilis Telecom | Pines Media
>> PO Box 1063 | Smithville, TX 78957
>> Email: james at arenalgroup.co<mailto:james at arenalgroup.co> | office
>> 512.360.0000 | cell 512.304.0745 |
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