Leasing /22

Tue Jan 23 22:47:19 UTC 2018

Which is where MAP-T and MAP-E help as they reduce the amount of logging required.

> On 24 Jan 2018, at 3:59 am, Michael Crapse <michael at wi-fiber.io> wrote:
> 
> The funnest part is telling DMCA/RIAA that an IP address means nothing, not without a port and exact time, someitmes down to a 10 minute mark. CGNAT + NAT64/464 xlat using the fewest ipv4s as possible(as suggested) also requires a large database to retain all records of every port and ipv4 address connected with every new connection. 
> 
> On 23 January 2018 at 09:56, Ryan Gard <ryangard at gmail.com> wrote:
> The biggest problems that start to run with cases of CGN or any other v4 aggregation method are services that still continue to treat single IP addresses as a single entity (a certain event ticket vendor comes to mind). Until these organizations either start opening a line of communications with ISPs, changing their methodology when handling traffic from v4 addresses, and/or deploying v6, the song and dance for v4 addressing will continue.
> 
> On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 7:57 PM, Lee Howard <lee at asgard.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> From:  Michael Crapse <michael at wi-fiber.io>
> Date:  Monday, January 22, 2018 at 5:27 PM
> To:  Mark Andrews <marka at isc.org>
> Cc:  Lee Howard <lee at asgard.org>, NANOG list <nanog at nanog.org>
> Subject:  Re: Leasing /22
> 
> > Customers on ps4s and xboxes will hate you. They will always get "strict" nat,
> > and it's your fault not mega corporation X's fault for not releasing IPv4s
> 
> Maybe. You don’t have to configure strict NAT on your translator (DS-Lite’s
> pretty good at this, and although I’m a few weeks away from testing consoles
> through 464xlat and MAP, they should work, too). And their NAT workarounds
> are pretty sophisticated now.
> 
> There comes a point when winning your customers’ love isn’t profitable. I
> don’t know if that point is $16/address for you, or $30, or $40, or $90.
> Maybe it varies, depending on the customer.
> 
> That’s why I suggested in “TCO of CGN”[1] that everyone figure out for
> themselves how much money you might lose to unhappy customers via CGN, and
> compare it to how much addresses cost, and at what price point you might
> turn around and sell addresses. My findings then, based on assumptions that
> almost certainly are not true for any particular network, and which may have
> changed, suggest that buying addresses still makes sense.
> 
> 
> Lee
> 
> [1] http://ipv6.nanog.org/meetings/abstract?id=2025
> 
> 
> >
> > On 22 January 2018 at 15:23, Mark Andrews <marka at isc.org> wrote:
> >> Add to that CGN from RFC 6598 addresses (100.64/10) + IPv6 though that
> >> reaches its limit at ~4M customers.
> >>
> >> Native IPv4 with a GUA to customers is essentially unavailable for new
> >> ISPs.  It’s a matter of picking which flavour of NAT you and your
> >> customers are going to use.  The sooner ALL ISP’s provide IPv6 to their
> >> customers the sooner we restore delivering the Internet to the customers.
> >>
> >> Mark
> >>
> >>> > On 23 Jan 2018, at 9:05 am, Lee Howard <lee at asgard.org> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> > IPv6 still solves your problem if you add any of NAT64, DS-Lite, 464xlat,
> >>> > MAP-T, MAP-E.
> >>> >
> >>> > Yes, you’re NATing, but only the traffic to places like Hulu, and it will
> >>> > decrease over time. And while you need addresses for the outside of the
> >>> > translator, you don’t need as many (or to get more as frequently).
> >>> >
> >>> > Lee
> >>> >
> >>> > On 1/20/18, 10:20 AM, "NANOG on behalf of Mike Hammett"
> >>> > <nanog-bounces at nanog.org on behalf of nanog at ics-il.net> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>>> >> It's not really scraping the bottom of the barrel if your customers are
> >>>> >> using Hulu and they're complaining because Hulu isn't responsive to
> >>>> >> fixing their problems (geo-location, v6, etc.).
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> -----
> >>>> >> Mike Hammett
> >>>> >> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> >>>> >> http://www.ics-il.com
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Midwest-IX
> >>>> >> http://www.midwest-ix.com
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> From: "Ca By" <cb.list6 at gmail.com>
> >>>> >> To: "Michael Crapse" <michael at wi-fiber.io>
> >>>> >> Cc: "NANOG list" <nanog at nanog.org>
> >>>> >> Sent: Friday, January 19, 2018 9:54:23 PM
> >>>> >> Subject: Re: Leasing /22
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 5:48 PM Michael Crapse <michael at wi-fiber.io>
> >>>> >> wrote:
> >>>> >>
> >>>>> >>> Has Hulu, or a thousand other content distributors considered IPv6?
> >>>>> >>> Because
> >>>>> >>> you can't even tunnel to ipv4 without setting off VPN alarms with
> >>>>> HULU.
> >>>>> >>>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Hulu? Really scraping the bottom of the barrel of content providers that
> >>>> >> dont use ipv6 these days.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Netflix and Youtube support v6 ... and thousand of others (thousands
> >>>> just
> >>>> >> on Cloudflare where v6 is default on)
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> About 80% of my traffic is native e2e v6, mostly google / youtube / fb /
> >>>> >> netflix / apple / amazon — but your mix may vary.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>>> >>>
> >>>>> >>>
> >>>>> >>> On 19 January 2018 at 18:38, Andrew Kirch <trelane at trelane.net> wrote:
> >>>>> >>>
> >>>>>> >>>> On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 4:59 PM Ryan Gard <ryangard at gmail.com>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>>> >>>>> We're on the hunt yet again for an additional /22 to lease, and
> are
> >>>>>>> >>>>> wondering what the best options are out there?
> >>>>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> >>>>> Our usual suspects that we've reached out to in the past seem to
> be
> >>>>> >>> plum
> >>>>>>> >>>>> out... Any recommendations?
> >>>>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> >>>>> Thanks!
> >>>>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> >>>>> --
> >>>>>>> >>>>> Ryan Gard
> >>>>>>> >>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>> Have you considered IPv6?
> >>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>> >>>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>
> >> --
> >> Mark Andrews, ISC
> >> 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
> >> PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 <tel:%2B61%202%209871%204742>               INTERNET:
> >> marka at isc.org
> >>
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Ryan Gard
> 

-- 
Mark Andrews, ISC
1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742              INTERNET: marka at isc.org