Leasing /22

Tue Jan 23 00:57:04 UTC 2018

From:  Michael Crapse <michael at wi-fiber.io>
Date:  Monday, January 22, 2018 at 5:27 PM
To:  Mark Andrews <marka at isc.org>
Cc:  Lee Howard <lee at asgard.org>, NANOG list <nanog at nanog.org>
Subject:  Re: Leasing /22

> Customers on ps4s and xboxes will hate you. They will always get "strict" nat,
> and it's your fault not mega corporation X's fault for not releasing IPv4s

Maybe. You don’t have to configure strict NAT on your translator (DS-Lite’s
pretty good at this, and although I’m a few weeks away from testing consoles
through 464xlat and MAP, they should work, too). And their NAT workarounds
are pretty sophisticated now.

There comes a point when winning your customers’ love isn’t profitable. I
don’t know if that point is $16/address for you, or $30, or $40, or $90.
Maybe it varies, depending on the customer.

That’s why I suggested in “TCO of CGN”[1] that everyone figure out for
themselves how much money you might lose to unhappy customers via CGN, and
compare it to how much addresses cost, and at what price point you might
turn around and sell addresses. My findings then, based on assumptions that
almost certainly are not true for any particular network, and which may have
changed, suggest that buying addresses still makes sense.

Lee

[1] http://ipv6.nanog.org/meetings/abstract?id=2025

> 
> On 22 January 2018 at 15:23, Mark Andrews <marka at isc.org> wrote:
>> Add to that CGN from RFC 6598 addresses (100.64/10) + IPv6 though that
>> reaches its limit at ~4M customers.
>> 
>> Native IPv4 with a GUA to customers is essentially unavailable for new
>> ISPs.  It’s a matter of picking which flavour of NAT you and your
>> customers are going to use.  The sooner ALL ISP’s provide IPv6 to their
>> customers the sooner we restore delivering the Internet to the customers.
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>>> > On 23 Jan 2018, at 9:05 am, Lee Howard <lee at asgard.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > IPv6 still solves your problem if you add any of NAT64, DS-Lite, 464xlat,
>>> > MAP-T, MAP-E.
>>> >
>>> > Yes, you’re NATing, but only the traffic to places like Hulu, and it will
>>> > decrease over time. And while you need addresses for the outside of the
>>> > translator, you don’t need as many (or to get more as frequently).
>>> >
>>> > Lee
>>> >
>>> > On 1/20/18, 10:20 AM, "NANOG on behalf of Mike Hammett"
>>> > <nanog-bounces at nanog.org on behalf of nanog at ics-il.net> wrote:
>>> >
>>>> >> It's not really scraping the bottom of the barrel if your customers are
>>>> >> using Hulu and they're complaining because Hulu isn't responsive to
>>>> >> fixing their problems (geo-location, v6, etc.).
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> -----
>>>> >> Mike Hammett
>>>> >> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>>> >> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Midwest-IX
>>>> >> http://www.midwest-ix.com
>>>> >>
>>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> >>
>>>> >> From: "Ca By" <cb.list6 at gmail.com>
>>>> >> To: "Michael Crapse" <michael at wi-fiber.io>
>>>> >> Cc: "NANOG list" <nanog at nanog.org>
>>>> >> Sent: Friday, January 19, 2018 9:54:23 PM
>>>> >> Subject: Re: Leasing /22
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 5:48 PM Michael Crapse <michael at wi-fiber.io>
>>>> >> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>>> >>> Has Hulu, or a thousand other content distributors considered IPv6?
>>>>> >>> Because
>>>>> >>> you can't even tunnel to ipv4 without setting off VPN alarms with
>>>>> HULU.
>>>>> >>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Hulu? Really scraping the bottom of the barrel of content providers that
>>>> >> dont use ipv6 these days.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Netflix and Youtube support v6 ... and thousand of others (thousands
>>>> just
>>>> >> on Cloudflare where v6 is default on)
>>>> >>
>>>> >> About 80% of my traffic is native e2e v6, mostly google / youtube / fb /
>>>> >> netflix / apple / amazon — but your mix may vary.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> On 19 January 2018 at 18:38, Andrew Kirch <trelane at trelane.net> wrote:
>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>> On Fri, Jan 19, 2018 at 4:59 PM Ryan Gard <ryangard at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>> We're on the hunt yet again for an additional /22 to lease, and
are
>>>>>>> >>>>> wondering what the best options are out there?
>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>> Our usual suspects that we've reached out to in the past seem to
be
>>>>> >>> plum
>>>>>>> >>>>> out... Any recommendations?
>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>>> >>>>> --
>>>>>>> >>>>> Ryan Gard
>>>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Have you considered IPv6?
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>> 
>> --
>> Mark Andrews, ISC
>> 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
>> PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 <tel:%2B61%202%209871%204742>               INTERNET:
>> marka at isc.org
>> 
> 