Should ISP block child pornography?

Fri Dec 7 20:18:29 UTC 2018

There's a reason that the subreddit for hidden services has this as a title
.....

https://www.reddit.com/r/onions

[image: image.png]

On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 11:54 AM Aaron1 <aaron1 at gvtc.com> wrote:

> Makes we want to cry, so sad
>
> Aaron
>
> On Dec 7, 2018, at 1:43 PM, cosmo <clinton.mielke at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I've done a bit of work in this space, wont elaborate ..... but here are
> some thoughts :
>
> * many less-engaged or new pedophiles may indeed search such content in
> the clear, however ....
> * the persistent abusers tend to form communities within TOR hidden
> services, making them difficult to find. Most are likely just consumers of
> the material, but many are producers (inc kidnappers)
> * some underground communities require that prospective members contribute
> new abuse imagery/videos in order to prove they are not law enforcement.
> Tragically this encourages abusers to abuse a family member
> * other communities have plenty of essays espousing the viewpoint that
> such behavior is quite natural, which does convince some to excuse their
> behavior. This content itself does have the ability to convert
> non-offenders to offenders, IMHO.
>    - The following article discuss these communities and their underlying
> agendas. I'll warn you that you may need therapy after reading it .....
>          *
> http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-1760-5-things-i-learned-infiltrating-deep-web-child-molesters.html
> * Some of the content is indeed quite traumatic - it's as bad as they say
> it is, and many people working in this space have long-term psychological
> problems
> * While many of these communities hide in TOR, making it difficult to find
> the perpetrators, many of the images there actually link to images hosted
> in public-facing image-hosting servers. This means that the abusers access
> it through 3 hops through the proxy network instead of 6, for hidden
> servers.
>
> This means that indeed, the majority of people accessing that content on
> your network may be doing so from hotlinks posted to a hidden server
> somewhere. You may see them primarily being accessed via known TOR exit
> nodes.
>
> My recommendations :
> * First, reach out to NCMEC for guidance on filtering/logging
> * Second, Ive done a teensy bit of work for these guys at Thorn (Ashton
> Kutchers nonprofit). They have an interesting program that attempts to
> recognize people searching for abuse imagery, and redirects them to
> material urging them to seek psychological help for their problem. :
> https://www.wearethorn.org/deterrence-prevent-child-sexual-abuse-imagery/
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 7, 2018 at 11:32 AM Lotia, Pratik M <Pratik.Lotia at charter.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Very well explained, Max!
>>
>>
>> With Gratitude,
>> Pratik Lotia
>>
>> “Information is not knowledge.”
>>
>> On 12/7/18, 13:16, "NANOG on behalf of nanog at jack.fr.eu.org" <
>> nanog-bounces at nanog.org on behalf of nanog at jack.fr.eu.org> wrote:
>>
>>     Well said
>>
>>
>>     On 12/07/2018 07:48 PM, Max Tulyev wrote:
>>     > Hi All,
>>     >
>>     > we are fighting with censorship in our country. So I have something
>> to say.
>>     >
>>     > First, censorship is not just "switch off this website and that
>>     > webpage". No magic button exist. It is more complex, if you think
>> as for
>>     > while system.
>>     >
>>     > Initially, networks was build without systems (hardware and
>> software)
>>     > can block something.
>>     >
>>     > Yes, you may nullroute some IP with some site, but as the collateral
>>     > damage you will block part of Cloudflare or Amazon, for example. So
>> you
>>     > have to buy and install additional equipment and software to do it
>> a bit
>>     > less painful. That's not so cheap, that should be planned, brought,
>>     > installed, checked and personal should be learned. After that, your
>>     > system will be capable to block some website for ~90% of your
>> customers
>>     > will not proactively avoid blocking. And for *NONE* who will, as CP
>>     > addicts, terrorists, blackmarkets, gambling, porn and others do.
>>     >
>>     > Yep. Now you network is capable to censor something. You just maid
>> the
>>     > first step to the hell. What's next? Some people send you some
>> websites
>>     > to ban. This list with CP, Spamhaus DROP, some court orders, some
>>     > semi-legal copyright protectors orders, some "we just want to block
>> it"
>>     > requests... And some list positions from time to time became
>> outdated,
>>     > so you need to clean it from time to time. Do not even expect people
>>     > sent you the block request will send you unblock request, of course.
>>     > Then, we have >6000 ISPs in our country - it is not possible to
>> interact
>>     > with all of them directly.
>>     >
>>     > So, you end up under a lot of papers, random interactions with
>> random
>>     > people and outdated and desyncronized blocking list. It will not
>> work.
>>     >
>>     > Next, government realizes there should be one centralized blocking
>> list
>>     > and introduces it.
>>     >
>>     > Ok. Now we have censored Internet. THE SWITCH IS ON.
>>     >
>>     > In a very short time the number of organizations have permission to
>>     > insert something in the list dramatically increases. Corruption
>> rises,
>>     > it becomes possible, and then becomes cheap to put your competitor's
>>     > website into the list for some time. And of course, primary target
>> of
>>     > any censorship is the elections...
>>     >
>>     > What about CP and porn addicts, gamblers, killers, terrorists?
>> Surprise,
>>     > they are even more fine than at the beginning! Why? Because they
>> learned
>>     > VPN, TOR and have to use it! Investigators end up with TOR and VPN
>> exit
>>     > IP addresses from another countries instead of their home IPs.
>>     >
>>     > Hey. It is a very very bad and very very danger game. Avoid it.
>>     > Goal of that game is to SWITCH ON that system BY ANY REASON. CP,
>> war,
>>     > gambling - any reason that will work. After the system will be
>> switched
>>     > on - in several months you will forget the initial reason. And will
>>     > awake in another world.
>>     >
>>     > 07.12.18 08:06, Lotia, Pratik M пише:
>>     >> Hello all, was curious to know the community’s opinion on whether
>> an ISP
>>     >> should block domains hosting CPE (child pornography exploitation)
>>     >> content? Interpol has a ‘worst-of’ list which contains such
>> domains and
>>     >> it wants ISPs to block it.
>>     >>
>>     >> On one side we want the ISP to not do any kind of censorship or
>>     >> inspection of customer traffic (customers are paying for pipes –
>> not for
>>     >> filtered pipes), on the other side morals/ethics come into play.
>> Keep in
>>     >> mind that if an ISP is blocking it would mean that it is also
>> logging
>>     >> the information (source IP) and law agencies might be wanting
>> access to it.
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >> Wondering if any operator is actively doing it or has ever
>> considered
>>     >> doing it?
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >> Thanks.
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >> With Gratitude,
>>     >>
>>     >> * *
>>     >>
>>     >> *Pratik Lotia*
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >>
>>     >> “Information is not knowledge.”
>>     >>
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