Microsoft O365 labels nanog potential fraud?

Leo Bicknell bicknell at
Wed Mar 29 16:06:19 UTC 2017

In a message written on Wed, Mar 29, 2017 at 08:58:38AM -0600, Grant Taylor via NANOG wrote:
> I also strongly recommend that mailing lists be viewed as an entity unto 
> themselves.  I.e. they receive the email, process it, and generate a new 
> email /from/ /their/ /own/ /address/ with very similar content as the 
> message they received.
> I strongly encourage mailing list admins to enable Variable Envelope 
> Return Path to help identify which subscribed recipient causes each 
> individual bounce, even if the problem is from downstream forwards.
> The problem with this is that it takes more processing power and 
> bandwidth.  Most people simply want an old school expansion that 
> re-sends the same, unmodified, message to multiple recipients.  -  That 
> methodology's heyday has come and mostly gone.

Actually, my problem is not so much processing power and bandwidth,
but that every time I've encountered this problem I found a morass
of painfully broken, horribly documented, super-complex software.

With sendmail/postfix you can edit an alias file and say:

	bob: joe, tim, alex

And boom, done.  If I could enable some feature/module/whatever in
either one with a line or two of config to make that do Variable
Envelope Return Path I would, but every solution I know of requires
setting up a complex milter, running some external daemon, which
often depends on 3 different interpreted languages to be installed
and so on down a dependency hell.

While I haven't looked at real mailing list software recently
(e.g. mailman) when I last did they didn't suport this either and
it took a pile of 3rd party hacks to make it work.

Why o why in 2017 can this not be a checkbox, a line of config, or
so on.

For that matter, setting up DKIM is horrendously complicated for 
no good reason...

Leo Bicknell - bicknell at
PGP keys at
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