Vendors spamming NANOG attendees

Wed Jun 14 03:39:04 UTC 2017

In message <A9D2D1BE-0724-4CBB-ACE3-8D2DE9C8928C at beckman.org>, Mel Beckman writes:
> Mark,
>
> What law makes the harvesting of email addresses illegal? None that I
> know of.

If you can trust wikipedia sending to harvested addresses is illegal
under CAN-SPAM.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN-SPAM_Act_of_2003 

While this is not US law, the act of harvesting addresses is illegal
under the Australian anti-spam act
https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/C2016C00614

Mark

> -mel via cell
>
> > On Jun 13, 2017, at 6:58 PM, Mark Andrews <marka at isc.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> > In message <F7E1F127-E971-4E92-AF44-13193BD0E27F at beckman.org>, Mel
> Beckman writes:
> >> Mark,
> >>
> >> The problem with your idea is that these NANOG attendee emails aren't
> >> illegal under CAN-SPAM. This toothless Act let's anyone email any
> address
> >> they want, however obtained, with virtually any content (except
> sexually
> >> explicit), as long as they don't use misleading headers, deceptive
> >> subject lines, or obscure the fact that the email is an ad. Those
> >> features, plus clear identification of the originator and an opt-out
> >> mechanism, let anyone send unlimited spam.
> >
> > The act of harvesting the email addresses is illegal which makes
> > the subsequent emails illegal even if they meet all the other
> > requirements of the CAN-SPAM act.
> >
> >> So, in reality, these so-called NANOG spammers are within the law. We
> >> just don't like what they're doing.
> >>
> >> We definitely can't sue them as you advise. In fact, individual CANT
> use
> >> under CAN-SPAM. Only we network operators can.
> >>
> >> Thanks for nothing, Congress.
> >
> > As someone with stonger local anti-spam legislation that has to put
> > up with the spam from US sources I have to agree.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >> -mel via cell
> >>
> >>> On Jun 13, 2017, at 5:10 PM, Mark Andrews <marka at isc.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> In message <38E506A8-247A-478F-9C4D-21602BEE6028 at beckman.org>, Mel
> >> Beckman writes:
> >>>> That still leaves the question: how to you invoke this financial
> >>>> punishment? Prohibit NANOG members from buying their products?
> >>>
> >>> Everyone that has received the email bring a action under the
> >>> CAN-SPAM act.  Really if you don't want the list to be harvested,
> >>> which is illegal under the act, bring the action.  Opt out doesn't
> >>> save the sender if they have already committed a illegal act.
> >>>
> >>> Mark
> >>>
> >>>> -mel via cell
> >>>>
> >>>>>> On Jun 13, 2017, at 10:12 AM, Rich Kulawiec <rsk at gsp.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 03:31:46PM +0000, Mel Beckman wrote:
> >>>>>> Sometimes they're ignorant and don't realize they're spamming.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That excuse stopped being viable sometime in the last century.  They
> >>>> know
> >>>>> exactly what they're doing, they're just counting on the prospective
> >>>>> gains to outweigh the prospective losses.  If they're right, then
> the
> >>>>> spamming will not only continue, it will increase.  (As we've seen:
> >>>>> over and over and over again.)  That's because they don't care about
> >>>>> being professional or responsible or ethical: they only care about
> >>>> profits.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So the choice is clear: either make it plain to such "people" (if I
> >>>>> may dignify sociopathic filth with that term) that this is
> absolutely
> >>>>> unacceptable and that it will have serious, immediate, ongoing
> >> negative
> >>>>> financial consequences, or do nothing while the problem escalates
> >>>>> indefinitely.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  If you give people the means to hurt you, and they do it, and
> >>>>>  you take no action except to continue giving them the means to
> >>>>>  hurt you, and they take no action except to keep hurting you,
> >>>>>  then one of the ways you can describe the situation is "it isn't
> >>>>>  scaling well".
> >>>>>      --- Paul Vixie, on NANOG
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ---rsk
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Mark Andrews, ISC
> >>> 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
> >>> PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742                 INTERNET: marka at isc.org
> >
> > --
> > Mark Andrews, ISC
> > 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
> > PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742                 INTERNET: marka at isc.org

-- 
Mark Andrews, ISC
1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742                 INTERNET: marka at isc.org