Cloudflare, dirty networks and politricks

Fri Jul 29 12:50:09 UTC 2016

On Fri, 29 Jul 2016, Rich Kulawiec wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 28, 2016 at 11:30:12PM +0000, Donn Lasher via NANOG wrote:
> > If we want to be accurate about it, Cloudflare doesn???t host the DDoS,
> > they protect the website of seller of the product. We shouldn???t be
> > de-peering Cloud Flare over sites they protect any more than we would
> > de-peer GoDaddy over sites they host, some of which, no doubt, sell
> > gray/black market/illegal items/services.
> 
> The only way to make action against them effective is to do it broadly,
> do it swiftly, and do it permanently.
> 

In my ramblings on "Why network operators love filth", I
associate a landlord that knowingly allows his/her tenant
to sell drugs. In America, your house is gone. This should
be the case on the Internet as well. Keep sending out crap
and ARIN should yank your IP space after everyone else
has de-peered you.

So let's get to these horrible analogies of "weapons" and
whether or not CloudFlare is solely the gun manufacturer
and is not responsible whether or not their ARCLOUD rifle
was used to shoot up a school killing children.

Analogy: Hotel Cloud is a pretty big hotel in the city.
They have 5,000 rooms. When you walk by, their tenants
are throwing rocks out of the windows, garbage, etc.
People complain to the hotel management that does nothing
about it. Hotel Cloud's response is: 'Well this is really
not our problem, we only rent a room, what the occupant
does...' --- And this makes sense to how many of you who'd
respond: "Well I don't know about you but I want to walk
around freely" Freely? At some point in time, you WILL
walk by this hotel, or another that WILL become just like
it. Why? Because there will be no one to say: "Hey this
is wrong buck stops here..."

I have seen these discussions on this list for so many
years, and there are those that want to do good, but won't
lift a finger out of fear of the herd/praetorian guard.
Anyone saying it cannot be done, is a coward bowing to
the dollar (euro/yen/whatever). The analogy above is spot
on, with the only difference being a hotel is physical,
and on the Interwebs, out of sight out of mind. This is
until one of your relatives' sites gets taken offline by
some bored moron via DDoS, and there go their sales, there
goes their business. THEN and only THEN will some of the
naysayers say: "Shit we could have stopped it."

Do you need law enforcement to be moral? "I can see
that person is getting pulverized by some drunken idiot
better not intervene because well... I want to walk
freely..." That beating can come full circle, where
beating can be DDoS, a sophisticated attack, malware.

I am so tempted to start a shaming site for networks
including all of the big boys with detailed records
showing how abuse was contacted, no one did nothing,
and oh by the way... "Are you sure you want to host
or transit with this company? Last I checked via
logs, they were a filthy network that catered to
peds, RBN folk, etc" Maybe when some of you guys
(that sit around twiddling fingers) see your companies
all over the place, maybe then you'll think about doing
the right thing.

-- 
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
J. Oquendo
SGFA, SGFE, C|EH, CNDA, CHFI, OSCP, CPT, RWSP, GREM

"Where ignorance is our master, there is no possibility of
real peace" - Dalai Lama

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