Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup?

Rafael Possamai rafael at gav.ufsc.br
Sat Jun 20 13:49:40 UTC 2015


That's interesting, I will take a look. Thanks!

On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 7:40 AM, Marco Teixeira <admin at marcoteixeira.com>
wrote:

> Rafael,
> At some scales, the WiFi standard alone will not cut it... Research on
> MERUNETWORKS virtual cell tecnology. I have done a trial with them. All the
> others are far behind on density. Check their case studies.
> Em 20/06/2015 13:02, "Rafael Possamai" <rafael at gav.ufsc.br> escreveu:
>
>> I don't think there's an actual standard for density, at least I am not
>> aware of one. Independent of the vendor you use, this guide should be
>> valid
>> at 80% of implementations:
>>
>>
>> http://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/wireless/aironet-1250-series/design_guide_c07-693245.html
>>
>> On Meraki's website there's a case study of an entertainment venue that
>> has
>> about 2,000 users per night, so I am assuming 1,000 which is your cause
>> should be doable.
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 5:41 AM, Sina Owolabi <notify.sina at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Thanks everybody. I've been corrected on density... I've been informed
>> that
>> > it's to be a minimum of 1000 users per building.
>> > That's 8,000 users. (8 buildings, not counting walkways and courtyards,
>> > admin, etc.)
>> > Does this qualify as high-density?
>> >
>> > On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 5:33 AM Ray Soucy <rps at maine.edu> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Well, I could certainly be wrong, but it's news to me if UBNT started
>> > > supporting DFS in the US.
>> > >
>> > > Your first screenshot is listing the UAP for 5240 which is channel 48,
>> > > U-NII-1.  The second show 5825 which is the upper limit of U-NNI-3.  I
>> > > don't see any U-NII-2 in what you posted.
>> > >
>> > > This forum post may be a bit out of date, but I haven't seen any
>> > > announcement or information on the forums to indicate the situation
>> has
>> > > changed, and I'm pretty good at searching:
>> > >
>> > > https://community.ubnt.com/t5/UniFi-Wireless/DFS/m-p/700461#M54771
>> > >
>> > > From this thread it looks like the ability to configure DFS channels
>> in
>> > the
>> > > US was a UI bug and only showing for ZH anyway.  IIRC they actually
>> got
>> > in
>> > > a bit of trouble with the FCC over not restricting the use of these
>> > > channels enough.
>> > >
>> > > Regardless of whether or not the FCC has cleared UBNT indoor products
>> for
>> > > U-NII-2 and U-NII-2-extended (and I haven't seen evidence of that
>> yet),
>> > > until you can configure APs to use those channels in the controller
>> > without
>> > > violating FCC regulations I don't consider them usable.
>> > >
>> > > The UAP-AC doesn't seem to support DFS channels at all even without
>> FCC
>> > > restrictions, which kind of kills the point of AC, only 4 x 40 MHz or
>> 2 x
>> > > 80 MHz channels doesn't cut it when we're talking about density.
>> > >
>> > > Note we're talking about indoor wireless and there ARE some UBNT
>> products
>> > > for outdoor WISP use that do support DFS and have been cleared by the
>> > FCC,
>> > > but we would only be looking at the UAP-PRO or UAP-AC in this case so
>> > maybe
>> > > that's the point of confusion here.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 11:36 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <
>> > faisal at snappytelecom.net>
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > FCC Cert claims different.
>> > > >
>> > > > :)
>> > > >
>> > > > Faisal Imtiaz
>> > > > Snappy Internet & Telecom
>> > > > 7266 SW 48 Street
>> > > > Miami, FL 33155
>> > > > Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
>> > > >
>> > > > Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email:
>> Support at Snappytelecom.net
>> > > >
>> > > > ------------------------------
>> > > >
>> > > > *From: *"Josh Luthman" <josh at imaginenetworksllc.com>
>> > > > *To: *"Faisal Imtiaz" <faisal at snappytelecom.net>
>> > > > *Cc: *"NANOG list" <nanog at nanog.org>, "Ray Soucy" <rps at maine.edu>
>> > > > *Sent: *Friday, June 19, 2015 9:16:37 PM
>> > > >
>> > > > *Subject: *Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless
>> > network
>> > > > setup?
>> > > >
>> > > > Uhm he's not wrong...
>> > > >
>> > > > Josh Luthman
>> > > > Office: 937-552-2340
>> > > > Direct: 937-552-2343
>> > > > 1100 Wayne St
>> > > > Suite 1337
>> > > > Troy, OH 45373
>> > > > On Jun 19, 2015 9:13 PM, "Faisal Imtiaz" <faisal at snappytelecom.net>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >> >>>The thing you need to watch out for with Ubiquiti is that they
>> > don't
>> > > >> support DFS, so the entire U-NII-2 channel space is off limits for
>> 5
>> > > GHz.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Huh ????
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Please verify your facts before making blanket statements which are
>> > not
>> > > >> accurate ...
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Faisal Imtiaz
>> > > >> Snappy Internet & Telecom
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> ----- Original Message -----
>> > > >> > From: "Ray Soucy" <rps at maine.edu>
>> > > >> > To: "Sina Owolabi" <notify.sina at gmail.com>
>> > > >> > Cc: "nanog at nanog.org list" <nanog at nanog.org>
>> > > >> > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 7:07:01 PM
>> > > >> > Subject: Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless
>> > network
>> > > >> setup?
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > I know you don't want to hear this answer because of cost but
>> I've
>> > had
>> > > >> good
>> > > >> > luck with Cisco for very high density (about 1,000 clients in a
>> > packed
>> > > >> > auditorium actively using the network as they follow along with
>> the
>> > > >> > presenter).
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > The thing you need to watch out for with Ubiquiti is that they
>> don't
>> > > >> > support DFS, so the entire U-NII-2 channel space is off limits
>> for 5
>> > > >> GHz.
>> > > >> > That's pretty significant because you're limited to 9 x 20 MHz
>> > > channels
>> > > >> or
>> > > >> > 4 x 40 MHz channels.  Keeping the power level down and creating
>> > small
>> > > >> cells
>> > > >> > is essential for high density, so with less channels your hands
>> are
>> > > >> really
>> > > >> > tied in that case.  Also, avoid the Zero Handoff marketing
>> nonsense
>> > > they
>> > > >> > advertise; I'm sure it can work great for a low client
>> residential
>> > > area
>> > > >> but
>> > > >> > it requires all APs to share a single channel and depends upon
>> > > >> coordinating
>> > > >> > only one active transmitter at a time, so it simply won't scale.
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > I don't have experience with other vendors at large scale or high
>> > > >> density.
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > I don't think what you're talking about is really high density
>> > anymore
>> > > >> > though.  That's just normal coverage.  Wireless is a lot more
>> > > >> complicated
>> > > >> > than selecting a vendor, though.  If you know what you're doing
>> even
>> > > >> > Ubiquiti could work decently, but if you don't even a Cisco
>> solution
>> > > >> won't
>> > > >> > save you.  You really need to be on top of surveying correctly
>> and
>> > > >> having
>> > > >> > appropriate AP placement and channel distribution.
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 1:57 AM, Sina Owolabi <
>> > notify.sina at gmail.com>
>> > > >> wrote:
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > > Hi
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > We are profiling equipment and design for an expected high user
>> > > >> density
>> > > >> > > network of multiple, close nit, residential/hostel units. Its
>> > going
>> > > >> to be
>> > > >> > > 8-10 buildings with possibly a over 1000 users at any given
>> time.
>> > > >> > > We are looking at Ruckus and Ubiquiti as options to get over
>> the
>> > > high
>> > > >> > > number of devices we are definitely going to encounter.
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > How did you do it, and what would you advise for product and
>> > layout?
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> > > Thanks in advance!
>> > > >> > >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > --
>> > > >> > Ray Patrick Soucy
>> > > >> > Network Engineer
>> > > >> > University of Maine System
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > T: 207-561-3526
>> > > >> > F: 207-561-3531
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > MaineREN, Maine's Research and Education Network
>> > > >> > www.maineren.net
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Ray Patrick Soucy
>> > > Network Engineer
>> > > University of Maine System
>> > >
>> > > T: 207-561-3526
>> > > F: 207-561-3531
>> > >
>> > > MaineREN, Maine's Research and Education Network
>> > > www.maineren.net
>> > >
>> >
>>
>



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