Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network setup?

Sat Jun 20 10:41:29 UTC 2015

Thanks everybody. I've been corrected on density... I've been informed that
it's to be a minimum of 1000 users per building.
That's 8,000 users. (8 buildings, not counting walkways and courtyards,
admin, etc.)
Does this qualify as high-density?

On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 5:33 AM Ray Soucy <rps at maine.edu> wrote:

> Well, I could certainly be wrong, but it's news to me if UBNT started
> supporting DFS in the US.
>
> Your first screenshot is listing the UAP for 5240 which is channel 48,
> U-NII-1.  The second show 5825 which is the upper limit of U-NNI-3.  I
> don't see any U-NII-2 in what you posted.
>
> This forum post may be a bit out of date, but I haven't seen any
> announcement or information on the forums to indicate the situation has
> changed, and I'm pretty good at searching:
>
> https://community.ubnt.com/t5/UniFi-Wireless/DFS/m-p/700461#M54771
>
> From this thread it looks like the ability to configure DFS channels in the
> US was a UI bug and only showing for ZH anyway.  IIRC they actually got in
> a bit of trouble with the FCC over not restricting the use of these
> channels enough.
>
> Regardless of whether or not the FCC has cleared UBNT indoor products for
> U-NII-2 and U-NII-2-extended (and I haven't seen evidence of that yet),
> until you can configure APs to use those channels in the controller without
> violating FCC regulations I don't consider them usable.
>
> The UAP-AC doesn't seem to support DFS channels at all even without FCC
> restrictions, which kind of kills the point of AC, only 4 x 40 MHz or 2 x
> 80 MHz channels doesn't cut it when we're talking about density.
>
> Note we're talking about indoor wireless and there ARE some UBNT products
> for outdoor WISP use that do support DFS and have been cleared by the FCC,
> but we would only be looking at the UAP-PRO or UAP-AC in this case so maybe
> that's the point of confusion here.
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 11:36 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <faisal at snappytelecom.net>
> wrote:
>
> > FCC Cert claims different.
> >
> > :)
> >
> > Faisal Imtiaz
> > Snappy Internet & Telecom
> > 7266 SW 48 Street
> > Miami, FL 33155
> > Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
> >
> > Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: Support at Snappytelecom.net
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > *From: *"Josh Luthman" <josh at imaginenetworksllc.com>
> > *To: *"Faisal Imtiaz" <faisal at snappytelecom.net>
> > *Cc: *"NANOG list" <nanog at nanog.org>, "Ray Soucy" <rps at maine.edu>
> > *Sent: *Friday, June 19, 2015 9:16:37 PM
> >
> > *Subject: *Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network
> > setup?
> >
> > Uhm he's not wrong...
> >
> > Josh Luthman
> > Office: 937-552-2340
> > Direct: 937-552-2343
> > 1100 Wayne St
> > Suite 1337
> > Troy, OH 45373
> > On Jun 19, 2015 9:13 PM, "Faisal Imtiaz" <faisal at snappytelecom.net>
> wrote:
> >
> >> >>>The thing you need to watch out for with Ubiquiti is that they don't
> >> support DFS, so the entire U-NII-2 channel space is off limits for 5
> GHz.
> >>
> >> Huh ????
> >>
> >> Please verify your facts before making blanket statements which are not
> >> accurate ...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Faisal Imtiaz
> >> Snappy Internet & Telecom
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Ray Soucy" <rps at maine.edu>
> >> > To: "Sina Owolabi" <notify.sina at gmail.com>
> >> > Cc: "nanog at nanog.org list" <nanog at nanog.org>
> >> > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 7:07:01 PM
> >> > Subject: Re: Whats' a good product for a high-density Wireless network
> >> setup?
> >> >
> >> > I know you don't want to hear this answer because of cost but I've had
> >> good
> >> > luck with Cisco for very high density (about 1,000 clients in a packed
> >> > auditorium actively using the network as they follow along with the
> >> > presenter).
> >> >
> >> > The thing you need to watch out for with Ubiquiti is that they don't
> >> > support DFS, so the entire U-NII-2 channel space is off limits for 5
> >> GHz.
> >> > That's pretty significant because you're limited to 9 x 20 MHz
> channels
> >> or
> >> > 4 x 40 MHz channels.  Keeping the power level down and creating small
> >> cells
> >> > is essential for high density, so with less channels your hands are
> >> really
> >> > tied in that case.  Also, avoid the Zero Handoff marketing nonsense
> they
> >> > advertise; I'm sure it can work great for a low client residential
> area
> >> but
> >> > it requires all APs to share a single channel and depends upon
> >> coordinating
> >> > only one active transmitter at a time, so it simply won't scale.
> >> >
> >> > I don't have experience with other vendors at large scale or high
> >> density.
> >> >
> >> > I don't think what you're talking about is really high density anymore
> >> > though.  That's just normal coverage.  Wireless is a lot more
> >> complicated
> >> > than selecting a vendor, though.  If you know what you're doing even
> >> > Ubiquiti could work decently, but if you don't even a Cisco solution
> >> won't
> >> > save you.  You really need to be on top of surveying correctly and
> >> having
> >> > appropriate AP placement and channel distribution.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 1:57 AM, Sina Owolabi <notify.sina at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Hi
> >> > >
> >> > > We are profiling equipment and design for an expected high user
> >> density
> >> > > network of multiple, close nit, residential/hostel units. Its going
> >> to be
> >> > > 8-10 buildings with possibly a over 1000 users at any given time.
> >> > > We are looking at Ruckus and Ubiquiti as options to get over the
> high
> >> > > number of devices we are definitely going to encounter.
> >> > >
> >> > > How did you do it, and what would you advise for product and layout?
> >> > >
> >> > > Thanks in advance!
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Ray Patrick Soucy
> >> > Network Engineer
> >> > University of Maine System
> >> >
> >> > T: 207-561-3526
> >> > F: 207-561-3531
> >> >
> >> > MaineREN, Maine's Research and Education Network
> >> > www.maineren.net
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Ray Patrick Soucy
> Network Engineer
> University of Maine System
>
> T: 207-561-3526
> F: 207-561-3531
>
> MaineREN, Maine's Research and Education Network
> www.maineren.net
>