Low cost WDM gear

Sat Feb 7 21:17:07 UTC 2015

My point is...... 
... The thing to rely on is/are the Specs. 
If the Specs are right or specs are wrong, that is what determines the product's mfg shortcoming (defect). 

Mfg. Engineers are people, just like you and me.... and people can make mistakes... 
Being an Engineer, when I ask someone to do the design work, I ask them to explain it, and this way I double check their work.... Yes Mfg. Engineers are known to F***up too. 

While it is expected to be disappointed when something does not work.. and having a bad taste for dealing with that mfg, claiming that all of that mfg products are bad is a whole different issue. 

I deal with FiberStore, my experience have been very different, when stuff purchased from them, did not meet the specs, they took it back no questions asked. 

Regards. 

Faisal Imtiaz 
Snappy Internet & Telecom 
7266 SW 48 Street 
Miami, FL 33155 
Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232 

Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: Support at Snappytelecom.net 

----- Original Message -----

> From: "Kenneth McRae" <kenneth.mcrae at me.com>
> To: "Faisal Imtiaz" <faisal at snappytelecom.net>
> Cc: "Rodrigo 1telecom" <rodrigo at 1telecom.com.br>, "NANOG" <nanog at nanog.org>
> Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 4:01:29 PM
> Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear

> That's true up to a point. Specs are only as good as the entity providing the
> data. I can tell you a few stories about specs and some MAJOR fails by a
> major network equipment manufacturer failing to meet advertised specs. When
> you engage the engineering folks to assist in a build, they should know the
> true specs of their gear better than anyone else. If they say for a certain
> distance that A+B will work, then that is exactly what I expect.

> That is pretty basic.

> On Feb 07, 2015, at 12:56 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <faisal at snappytelecom.net> wrote:

> > More power to you ....
> 

> > I always get a chuckle out of statements such as ... "Compared FiberStore
> > to
> > another Vendor"...
> 

> > It was pointed out to me long time ago.... when someone said.. "My Chevy is
> > better than a Ford"....
> 
> > Someone pointed out, hey, which Chevy ? the Chevette ? or the Corvette ?
> > and
> > Which Ford the Fiesta or Mustang ?
> 

> > Every mfg. has a lots and lots of products, and they are always getting
> > improved...
> 

> > One has to pay attention to the specs.. even the same model products at
> > different times don't have the same specs !
> 

> > :)
> 

> > Faisal Imtiaz
> 
> > Snappy Internet & Telecom
> 
> > 7266 SW 48 Street
> 
> > Miami, FL 33155
> 
> > Tel: 305 663 5518 x 232
> 

> > Help-desk: (305)663-5518 Option 2 or Email: Support at Snappytelecom.net
> 

> > ----- Original Message -----
> 

> > > From: "Kenneth McRae" <kenneth.mcrae at me.com>
> > 
> 
> > > To: "Faisal Imtiaz" <faisal at snappytelecom.net>
> > 
> 
> > > Cc: "Rodrigo 1telecom" <rodrigo at 1telecom.com.br>, "NANOG"
> > > <nanog at nanog.org>
> > 
> 
> > > Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 3:49:16 PM
> > 
> 
> > > Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear
> > 
> 

> > > That's why I engage the engineering resources on their end to make sure
> > > the
> > > chosen candidate will support the use case. I have now performed an A/B
> > > comparison and the FiberStore gear is inferior. Excessive loss on the mux
> > > and optics.
> > 
> 

> > > On Feb 07, 2015, at 12:44 PM, Faisal Imtiaz <faisal at snappytelecom.net>
> > > wrote:
> > 
> 

> > > > If you pay close attention to the Spec Sheets, on power output,
> > > > insertion
> > > > loss, sensitivity, and do the proper calculation for your link, then
> > > > using
> > > > anyone's products, passive or active will work unless the devices do
> > > > not
> > > > meet specified specs.
> > > 
> > 
> 

> > > > If you don't do your homework, cals on the design, loss, and just buy
> > > > stuff
> > > > based on whatever, then it does not matter who the mfg. is, you are
> > > > very
> > > > very likely to be surprised in a bad way.
> > > 
> > 
> 

> > > > :)
> > > 
> > 
> 

> > > > Faisal Imtiaz
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > Snappy Internet & Telecom
> > > 
> > 
> 

> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > 
> > 
> 

> > > > > From: "Rodrigo 1telecom" < rodrigo at 1telecom.com.br >
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > To: "Kenneth McRae" < kenneth.mcrae at me.com >
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > Cc: "NANOG" < nanog at nanog.org >
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2015 3:24:43 PM
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > Subject: Re: Low cost WDM gear
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > What others vendors do you using? Here in Brazil only PADTEC have
> > > > > this
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > passive solution... Some days ago Digitel contact me to show your
> > > > > multiplex
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > solution... Is a active solution...
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > We import this from fiberstore, but i don't know others vendors to
> > > > > buy
> > > > > 10G
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > sfp+ cwdm and this mux/demux...
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > Enviado via iPhone 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > Grupo Connectoway
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > > Em 07/02/2015, às 16:04, Kenneth McRae < kenneth.mcrae at me.com >
> > > > > > escreveu:
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > > Hi Enviado,
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > > I cannot recommend FiberStore as I had a bad experience with them.
> > > > > > I
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > > needed to cover only 3km from A to B side. When using 10km optics,
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > saw
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > > a loss of over 5db with their passive mux inserted into the path
> > > > > > which
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > > created a total loss of over -20db which is outside of the
> > > > > > tolerances
> > > > > > for
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > > our equipment with 10km SFP+. Using another vendors low insertion
> > > > > > loss
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > > mux corrected our issue. I am sure if you are using an 80km optic,
> > > > > > you
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > > may be able to tolerate a higher insertion loss to cover < 60km. I
> > > > > > also
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > > notice that their CDWM optics averaged about 3db less in power
> > > > > > output
> > > > > > when
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > > compared to other vendors.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > > Thanks
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > > Kenneth
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >> On Feb 07, 2015, at 10:33 AM, Rodrigo 1telecom <
> > > > > >> rodrigo at 1telecom.com.br
> > > > > >> >
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >> Hi kenneth... which the distance do you have from side A to side B
> > > > > >> when
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >> you using passive solutions from fiberstore( mux and demux)?
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >> I buy this mux and demux(4 channels single fiber) and only make a
> > > > > >> test
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >> about 60km( mux side A and demux on side B) with sfp+10gb for
> > > > > >> 80km...
> > > > > >> (
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >> only see ddm on my ex3300( about -19db for 60km). Test switch
> > > > > >> access
> > > > > >> with
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >> ssh and pinging tests...
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >> What kind os issue do you have? For distances less than 60km is
> > > > > >> this
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >> solution good?
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >> Thanks!!!
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >> Enviado via iPhone 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >> Grupo Connectoway
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> Em 07/02/2015, às 14:55, Kenneth McRae < kenneth.mcrae at me.com >
> > > > > >>> escreveu:
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> Mike,
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> I just replaced a bunch of FiberStore WDM passive muxes with OSI
> > > > > >>> Hardware
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> equipment. The FiberStore gear was a huge disappointment
> > > > > >>> (excessive
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> loss, poor technical support, refusal to issue refund without
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> threatening legal action, etc.). I have had good results from the
> > > > > >>> OSI
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> equipment so far. I run passive muxes for CWDM (8 - 16 channels).
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> On Feb 07, 2015, at 09:51 AM, Manuel Marín < mmg at transtelco.net >
> > > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> Hi Mike
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> I can recommend a couple of vendors that provide cost effective
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> solutions.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> Ekinops & Packetlight.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> On Saturday, February 7, 2015, Mike Hammett < nanog at ics-il.net >
> > > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> I know there are various Asian vendors for low cost (less than
> > > > > >>> $500)
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> muxes
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> to throw 16 or however many colors onto a strand. However, they
> > > > > >>> don't
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> work
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> so well when you don't control the optics used on both sides
> > > > > >>> (therefore
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> must use standard wavelengths), obviously only do a handful of
> > > > > >>> channels
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> and
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> have a distance limitation.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> What solutions are out there that don't cost an arm and a leg?
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> -----
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> Mike Hammett
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> http://www.ics-il.com
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> --
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> TRANSTELCO| Manuel Marin | VP Engineering | US: *+1 915-217-2232*
> > > > > >>> |
> > > > > >>> MX:
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> *+52
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> 656-257-1109*
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This communication is intended only for
> > > > > >>> the
> > > > > >>> use
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may
> > > > > >>> contain
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from
> > > > > >>> disclosure
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient of
> > > > > >>> this
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> information, you are notified that any use, dissemination,
> > > > > >>> distribution,
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> or
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> copying of the communication is strictly prohibited.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> AVISO DE CONFIDENCIALIDAD: Esta comunicación es sólo para el uso
> > > > > >>> de
> > > > > >>> la
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> persona o entidad a la que se dirige y puede contener información
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> privilegiada, confidencial y exenta de divulgación bajo la
> > > > > >>> legislación
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> aplicable. Si no es el destinatario de esta información, se le
> > > > > >>> notifica
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> que
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> cualquier uso, difusión, distribución o copia de la comunicación
> > > > > >>> está
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> > > > > >>> estrictamente prohibido.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
>