Question related to Cellular Data and restrictions..

Joshua Goldbard j at
Thu Dec 5 07:59:29 UTC 2013

Tier 1 ISPs engage in settlement-free peering. Everyone else pays for transit.

I had a giant reply about politics but figured I'd save everyone the reading time.

Suffice it to say, the regulatory environment in Wireless is different. It costs more money than their model allows for you to use their service. They are not making the profits they need to and cut the service, it's that simple. Roaming costs money, you're not crazy, this is 2013.

A DS1 and a cellular link are completely different.


P.S. A puck with 10GB is a ton of data; I'd also wager you couldn't use the full 10GB on a roaming tower without a warning, but I could be wrong.

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 4, 2013, at 11:30 PM, "Warren Bailey" <wbailey at<mailto:wbailey at>> wrote:

Blanket reply.. :)

So at what point does unlimited mean unlimited? Roaming agreements have always been two sided. In my case.. I roam on to AT&T's network, the same as AT&T folk roam into tmo when they do not have coverage. At the end of the month the two are reconciled and someone gets paid. If you are selling a service that is making generalized assurances in connectivity (nationwide 4g let netwokr) , you should make a best effort to honor that. It wasn't even a fair amount of bandwidth.. I could deal with a 2gb a month cap or something.. But I am now able to use my unlimited data in 100 countries without incurring additional charges.. Are we going to start saying that international roaming costs are lower than domestic on a regularly used network?

I literally feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. Tmo and Att are far from small fish.. And a 50mb per month cap is absolute bullshit. Figure it into your business line.. Or do the honest thing and don't offer the service. How you guys are justifying this is BEYOND me. You can buy a ds1 for several hundred dollars per month.. And unlimited customers get 50 megs a month for data.. You can't even check email over the month on that. I'm not an abusive user.. I don't download or use my cellular data connection for hacked hotspot use.. Not to mention the hotspot I do have with them has 10gb a month nationwide.. So I can use my puck for 10gb..but my phone (on the SAME TOWER) is different?

That is like saying sms costs network providers money.. (don't bring up ran gear or smsc costs.. It's not related)

Sent from my Mobile Device.

-------- Original message --------
From: Joshua Goldbard <j at<mailto:j at>>
Date: 12/04/2013 4:10 PM (GMT-09:00)
To: Henry Yen <henry at<mailto:henry at>>
Cc: nanog at<mailto:nanog at>
Subject: Re: Question related to Cellular Data and restrictions..

Ting is an MVNO (just like my company 2600hz) and while it would violate the terms of my NDA to confirm the 10x number I can say that we found it to be prohibitively expensive.

One should be aware that, just like in the IP transit world, the small players have different rules than the big kids. It might be prohibitively expensive for us, but it's a different order of magnitude for a carrier like Sprint proper.

Hope that helps.


P.S. shameless plug: we provide white-label cellular service to operators including full provisioning and call control plus it can be tied back into corporate phone systems (and it's open source!!).

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 4, 2013, at 2:59 PM, "Henry Yen" <henry at<mailto:henry at>> wrote:

> On Wed, Dec 04, 2013 at 22:18:12PM +0000, Joshua Goldbard wrote:
>> ...  When you send your data
>> over a partners network it raises your wireless company's cost of
>> delivering service, in some cases so much so that you become
>> unprofitable.
> Some folks over at Ting(.com) suggest that the cost for data roaming is as
> high as ten times that for voice/SMS roaming, which is why they don't charge
> extra for the latter, and do not at all provide the former.
> --
> Henry Yen <Henry.Yen at<mailto:Henry.Yen at>>               Aegis Information Systems, Inc.
> Senior Systems Programmer                       Hicksville, New York
> (800) AEGIS-00 x949                             1-800-AEGIS-00 (800-234-4700)

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