Yahoo and IPv6

Igor Gashinsky igor at gashinsky.net
Wed May 11 04:12:05 CDT 2011


On Tue, 10 May 2011, Frank Bulk wrote:

:: If I can anticipate Igor's response, he'll say that he'll whitelist those
:: IPv6-only networks and so he's just help 182,000 people.

That's a very good guess as to what I was going to say :)

-igor

:: -----Original Message-----
:: From: Owen DeLong [mailto:owen at delong.com] 
:: Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 1:23 PM
:: To: Igor Gashinsky
:: Cc: nanog at nanog.org
:: Subject: Re: Yahoo and IPv6
:: 
:: On May 10, 2011, at 9:32 AM, Igor Gashinsky wrote:
:: 
:: > On Tue, 10 May 2011, Valdis.Kletnieks at vt.edu wrote:
:: > 
:: > :: On Tue, 10 May 2011 02:17:46 EDT, Igor Gashinsky said:
:: > :: 
:: > :: > The time for finger-pointing is over, period, all we are all trying
:: to do 
:: > :: > now is figure out how to deal with the present (sucky) situation. The
:: 
:: > :: > current reality is that for a non-insignificant percentage of users
:: when 
:: > :: > you enable dual-stack, they are gong to drop off the face of the
:: planet. 
:: > :: > Now, for *you*, 0.026% may be insignificant (and, standalone, that
:: number 
:: > :: > is insignificant), but for a global content provider that has ~700M
:: users, 
:: > :: > that's 182 *thousand* users that *you*, *through your actions* just
:: took 
:: > :: > out.. 182,000 - that is *not* insignificant
:: > :: 
:: > :: At any given instant, there's a *lot* more than 182,000 users who are
:: cut off
:: > :: due to various *IPv4* misconfigurations and issues.
:: > 
:: > Yes, but *these* 182,000 users have perfectly working ipv4 connectivity, 
:: > and you are asking *me* to break them through *my* actions. Sorry, that's 
:: > simply too many to break for me, without a damn good reason to do so.
:: > 
:: In other words, Igor can't turn on AAAA records generally until there are
:: 182,001 IPv6-only users that are broken from his lack of AAAA records.
:: 
:: Given IP address consumption rates in Asia and the lack of available IPv4
:: resources in Asia, with a traditional growth month to month of nearly
:: 30 million IPv4 addresses consumed, I suspect it will not be long before
:: the 182,001 broken IPv6 users become relevant.
:: 
:: > Doing that on world ipv6 day, when there is a lot of press, and most other
:: 
:: > large content players doing the same, *is* a good reason - it may actually
:: 
:: > has a shot of accomplishing some good, since it may get those users to 
:: > realize that they are broken, and fix their systems, but outside of flag 
:: > day, if I enabled AAAA by default for all users, all I'm going to do is 
:: > send those "broken" users to my competitors who chose not to enable AAAA 
:: > on their sites. 
:: > 
:: Agreed. I think IPv6 day is a great plan for this very reason. I also hope
:: that
:: a lot of organizations that try things out on IPv6 day will decide that the
:: brokenness that has been so hyped wasn't actually noticeable and then
:: leave their AAAA records in place. I do not expect Yahoo or Google to
:: be among them, but, hopefully a lot of other organizations will do so.
:: 
:: > This is why I think automatic, measurement-based whitelisting/blacklisting
:: 
:: > to minimize the collateral damage of enabling AAAA is going to be 
:: > inevitable (with the trigger set to something around 99.99%), and about 
:: > the only way we see wide-scale IPv6 adoption by content players, outside 
:: > events like world ipv6 day.
:: > 
:: This will be interesting. Personally, I think it will be more along the
:: lines
:: of when there are more IPv6 only eye-balls with broken IPv4 than there
:: are IPv4 eye-balls with broken IPv6, AAAA will become the obvious
:: solution.
:: 
:: In my opinion, this is just a matter of time and will happen much sooner
:: than
:: I think most people anticipate.
:: 
:: Owen
:: 
:: 




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