Microsoft's participation in World IPv6 day

Mon Jun 6 02:29:44 UTC 2011

On Jun 5, 2011 7:15 PM, "Mark Andrews" <marka at isc.org> wrote:
>
>
> In message <BANLkTiniAKw+GPPcmJFs8QFBdRM7QEk30w at mail.gmail.com>, Cameron
Byrne
> writes:
> > On Jun 5, 2011 6:15 PM, "Mark Andrews" <marka at isc.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > In message <BANLkTimGkuL7ycrYG6kTC1U7OWis9dOA+YaV-YHwr+5C8=
> > 0Pxw at mail.gmail.com>
> > > , =?UTF-8?B?SsOpcsO0bWUgTmljb2xsZQ==?= writes:
> > > > 2011/6/6 Mark Andrews <marka at isc.org>:
> > > >
> > > > > There is no reason that they can't do a similar thing to move
> > > > > customers who are doing things that break with LSN out from behind
> > > > > the LSN.
> > > >
> > > > Oh, you're right, they'll surelly do that. But not in time, and not
for
> > fre=
> > > > e.
> > >
> > > Well here in Australia I would be calling the ACCC is a ISP tried
> > > to charge extra for a address that is not behind a LSN.  As for in
> > > time it should be in place before they turn on LSN.  If you can
> > > adjust port 25 filters whenever a customer gets a new address you
> > > can also ensure that they get address from the correct pool when
> > > they connect to the network.  This really isn't rocket science.
> > > It's updating the provisioning database from a web form and generating
> > > new configs based on that database.  Yes there is some work required
> > > to ensure that this gets done properly and there needs to be checks
> > > that address pools are appropriately sized.
> > >
> >
> > Can you cite an example of an isp doing this? My assumption is that
people
> > will get LSN by default for standard residential broad band and business
> > class will get public ip's.
>
> It's how you handle the exceptions.  Home users have port 25 off
> by default but can still get it turned on.  Most home users don't
> need a public IP address as they are not running stuff that requires
> it however some do so planning to handle the exceptions as efficiently
> as possible is a good thing to do.
>
> I've got two applications that won't work behind a LSN.  A sip phone
> and a 6in4 tunnel however I'm not typical.
>
> Looking at 6to4 and auto tunnels they really are a small percentage
> of customers that could be auto detected by the ISP and be put into
> the exception pool prior to enabling LSN.  Most CPE routers today
> don't enable 6to4 (they either don't support IPv6 let alone 6to4
> or its not turned on by default).  As for directly connected machines
> many of then still require 6to4 to be turned on by hand (XP, Mac
> OS).
>
> What's easier for the ISP, detecting the  customers that use protocol
> 41 today and automatically adding them to a exception pool or
> fielding the support calls?

I understand your scenario and logic clearly.  I assume you understood my
question about an example isp that also follows your logic... so we are left
to assume that none exists.

If ISPs were going to follow your plan they would not be cooking up 6to4-pmt
and charging extra for static ip's today.

Cb

> Mark
>
> > Without any commitments to cite, plan for the worst and hope for the
best.
> >
> > Cb
> > > If I were doing it I would also have checkboxes for some of the
> > > more common reasons and include IPv6 connectivity as one then have
> > > a 6 month grace period once the ISP offers IPv6 connectivity before
> > > removing that as a valid reason for needing a address that is not
> > > behind the LSN.
> > >
> > > > LSN is beeing actively implemented in the core network of several
> > > > ISPs, and most didn't yet consider it as optional. Nor are ready for
> > > > v6 connectivity to residential customers, though.
> > > >
> > > > For users behind a forced NAT (no way to disable it on the CPE) or
> > > > LSN, the only way out is still tunneling. Talking about bandwidth
and
> > > > infrastructure waste...
> > > --
> > > Mark Andrews, ISC
> > > 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
> > > PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742                 INTERNET: marka at isc.org
> --
> Mark Andrews, ISC
> 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
> PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742                 INTERNET: marka at isc.org