"Leasing" of space via non-connectivity providers
owen at delong.com
Sat Feb 5 23:42:38 CST 2011
On Feb 5, 2011, at 9:24 PM, Benson Schliesser wrote:
> On Feb 5, 2011, at 2:25 PM, Owen DeLong wrote:
>> The fact that a very large number of network operators use the data
>> contained in the RIR system in a cooperative manner is convenient
>> and makes the internet substantially more useful than I can imagine
>> it would be under alternative scenarios. However, that does not mean
>> that the RIRs are granting any sort of license, right to use, or ownership.
>> Nor does it mean that terminating a registration constitutes taking away
>> such a grant that was never given.
I need to be very clear here... The opinions I am expressing are mine and mine
alone. I don't know if ANYONE at ARIN shares them with me.
> This is a pretty tenuous position. If the Whois database isn't specifying the proper association between an organization and an address block, what is it for? I think you're suggesting that the definition of "proper" in this case is no more than ARIN's non-binding recommendation. If that's the case then ARIN has no "authority" as the address registry. I think ARIN's own statements, relationship with NRO and IANA, etc, all contradict this.
What I am saying is that ARIN and the Whois database ARIN maintains is authoritative only
so far as those using the data wish to consider it authoritative.
It does not command any particular network operator to treat any set of numbers in any
ARIN is the registry recognized as authoritative in its geographic region by NRO and IANA.
However, one can maintain a database of integers that is not sanction by NRO and IANA
and if people choose to put your numbers into their routers instead of ARIN or other NRO
or IANA based registry numbers, who is to stop them or you?
The ability of ARIN to influence the routing table is strictly limited to the fact that ISPs
choose to consider ARIN authoritative. That choice is entirely voluntary on the part of
> On the other hand, if ARIN intends the Whois to reflect the proper association between organizations and address blocks, then it has some responsibility for the accuracy of that data. While not a perfect comparison, it would be somewhat like a financial services company hired to maintain shareholder ownership records of a public company - negligence in maintaining accurate records can result in criminal consequences. In fact, in my example, if the company decided to reallocate one group of shares to new owners they'd find themselves in a deep pile of trouble - we have laws that govern property rights, define theft and fraud, etc, all of which takes precedence over company policy.
I think ARIN has tremendous responsibility for the accuracy of that data. However, the
definition of what is accurate is governed only by ARIN policy and the contracts ARIN has
to provide registration services.
> It would be disingenuous to offer a database of information, recommend it be used by the public, support its use as an authoritative source, and then deny any responsibility for the contents. I don't think your position on this particular topic reflects ARIN in reality.
I am not denying that ARIN has responsibility for the contents of the database. I absolutely
feel they are responsible to the members and to the resource holders who pay ARIN for
registration services to keep that data accurate. So far, they have also voluntarily accepted
additional data which may or may not be accurate in support of a community of pre-existing
registrations that have no contract with ARIN. There is no reason I know of that ARIN would
not be within its rights to terminate that free voluntary registration service at any time.
Note, I think such an action on ARINs part would be ill-advised and contrary to the good
of the community and harmful to the internet. It might even be damaging to ARINs very
relevance to the internet.
I'm merely pointing out that legacy holders cannot be assured ARIN will continue to provide
a free registration service for them in perpetuity. If they want to guarantee the services they
have today, signing the LRSA is crucial. If they do not sign the LRSA, there is nothing
to prevent the community from changing ARIN policy in such a way that said free services
I will oppose any such move by the community. I have strongly opposed previous
efforts in this direction. However, I am one voice in a much larger community.
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