Doubt in ISIS

Thu Apr 21 06:55:51 UTC 2011

I have a doubt in ISIS.
While redistributing routes from other protocols, how the metric is decided?
OSPF has deccribed this in RFC 2328 Section 16.4 :

               '4) Let X be the cost specified by the preferred routing
table

           entry for the ASBR/forwarding address, and Y the cost
           specified in the LSA.  X is in terms of the link state
           metric, and Y is a type 1 or 2 external metric.

       (5) Look up the routing table entry for the destination N.  If
           no entry exists for N, install the AS external path to N,
           with next hop equal to the list of next hops to the
           forwarding address, and advertising router equal to ASBR.
           If the external metric type is 1, then the path-type is set
           to type 1 external and the cost is equal to X+Y.  If the
           external metric type is 2, the path-type is set to type 2
           external, the link state component of the route's cost is X,

and the type 2 cost is Y.'

What is the behavior in ISIS?
Regards,
Savyasachi
7676077879

On Thu, Apr 21, 2011 at 12:07 PM, <nanog-request at nanog.org> wrote:

> Send NANOG mailing list submissions to
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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: CIsco IOS bug info request (Randy Bush)
>   2. Re: Comcast's 6to4 Relays (Jim Gettys)
>   3. Re: Comcast's 6to4 Relays (Owen DeLong)
>   4. Re: Comcast's 6to4 Relays (TJ)
>   5. Bandwidth growth (Curran, David)
>   6. Re: Bandwidth growth (Patrick W. Gilmore)
>   7. Re: Bandwidth growth (Adrian Chadd)
>   8. Re: Bandwidth growth (Martin Millnert)
>   9. Re: NEBS compliant Server (Jess Petty)
>  10. Re: NANOG Digest, Vol 37, Issue 121 (Savyasachi Choudhary)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 06:02:15 +0900
> From: Randy Bush <randy at psg.com>
> Subject: Re: CIsco IOS bug info request
> To: Ingo Flaschberger <if at xip.at>
> Cc: nanog at nanog.org
> Message-ID: <m2wriotz54.wl%randy at psg.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
> > A "little" bit older one, but bigger - took down the whole internet:
>
> for a small value of "whole internet"
>
> same for ripe/duke experiment gone bad
>
> randy
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 17:26:26 -0400
> From: Jim Gettys <jg at freedesktop.org>
> Subject: Re: Comcast's 6to4 Relays
> To: nanog at nanog.org
> Message-ID: <4DAF4F82.3030201 at freedesktop.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 04/20/2011 04:44 PM, Owen DeLong wrote:
> >>> The best way to make 6to4 diminish has always been and still remains:
> >>>
> >>>     Deploy Native IPv6 Now.
> >>>
> >>> That's a plan and a necessity at this point, but, execution is still
> somewhat lagging.
> >>>
> >> Of course, Comcast *is* deploying native IPv6; see, for example,
> >> http://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2011-January/031624.html
> >> It just takes a while -- and a non-trivial number of zorkmids -- to
> >> do things like replacing all of the non-v6 CPE.
> >>
> >>
> >>         --Steve Bellovin, https://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb
> > Comcast was not the target of my comment... The networks saying Comcast
> shouldn't help the rest of the net by providing open 6to4 relays were the
> ones I was referring to.
> >
> > I again applaud Comcast's leadership on IPv6 to the end user, even if
> they haven't gotten
> > it to me yet. ;-)
> >
>
> They already have if you can run either 6rd or 6to4 and are a Comcast
> customer, even if you didn't happen to know they had.  (Though they do
> plan to turn off the 6rd hack they were using this summer; their native
> trial and 6to4 work well enough to not need yet another transition
> mechanism).
>
> Their kind offer is to extend availability of their 6to4 relays to
> others who aren't even Comcast customers...
>
> (Says this reasonably happy participant in Comcast's IPv6 trial; my
> unhappiness is the state of CPE firmware, not with how well Comcast's
> end of things work; I plan to ditch commercial firmware on my home
> router for OpenWRT momentarily...)
>                                 - Jim
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 18:55:02 -0500
> From: Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com>
> Subject: Re: Comcast's 6to4 Relays
> To: Jim Gettys <jg at freedesktop.org>
> Cc: "nanog at nanog.org" <nanog at nanog.org>
> Message-ID: <AEFA7162-80E6-4F3C-9BCA-E2D1FB04FE3C at delong.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Apr 20, 2011, at 4:26 PM, Jim Gettys <jg at freedesktop.org> wrote:
>
> > On 04/20/2011 04:44 PM, Owen DeLong wrote:
> >>>> The best way to make 6to4 diminish has always been and still remains:
> >>>>
> >>>>    Deploy Native IPv6 Now.
> >>>>
> >>>> That's a plan and a necessity at this point, but, execution is still
> somewhat lagging.
> >>>>
> >>> Of course, Comcast *is* deploying native IPv6; see, for example,
> >>> http://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2011-January/031624.html
> >>> It just takes a while -- and a non-trivial number of zorkmids -- to
> >>> do things like replacing all of the non-v6 CPE.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>        --Steve Bellovin, https://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb
> >> Comcast was not the target of my comment... The networks saying Comcast
> shouldn't help the rest of the net by providing open 6to4 relays were the
> ones I was referring to.
> >>
> >> I again applaud Comcast's leadership on IPv6 to the end user, even if
> they haven't gotten
> >> it to me yet. ;-)
> >>
> >
> > They already have if you can run either 6rd or 6to4 and are a Comcast
> customer, even if you didn't happen to know they had.  (Though they do plan
> to turn off the 6rd hack they were using this summer; their native trial and
> 6to4 work well enough to not need yet another transition mechanism).
> >
> I'm already running IPv6 over 6in4 tunnels to my cool routers. 6rd is not
> an improvement.
>
> I'm looking forward to the day when Comcast can deliver straight native
> IPv6 to me.
>
> > Their kind offer is to extend availability of their 6to4 relays to others
> who aren't even Comcast customers...
> >
> > (Says this reasonably happy participant in Comcast's IPv6 trial; my
> unhappiness is the state of CPE firmware, not with how well Comcast's end of
> things work; I plan to ditch commercial firmware on my home router for
> OpenWRT momentarily...)
> >                                - Jim
> >
> >
> lol... The commercial JunOS on my home gateway seems to be working OK.
>
> Owen
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 20:57:23 -0400
> From: TJ <trejrco at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Comcast's 6to4 Relays
> To: nanog at nanog.org
> Message-ID: <BANLkTin5FwULR-k=V5=u1bCDURskx+qo4g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 16:09, Doug Barton <dougb at dougbarton.us> wrote:
>
> > On 04/20/2011 12:50, Owen DeLong wrote:
> >
> >> Turnning off the servers will not reduce the brokenness of 6to4, it will
> >> increase it.
> >>
> >
> > Depends on your definitions of "increase" and "broken." If all the relays
> > disappeared tomorrow then the failure rate would be 100%, sure. But that
> > would mean a single, (more or less) instant, deterministic failure that
> any
> > modern OS ought to be able to handle intelligently; rather than the
> myriad
> > of ways that 6to4 can half-succeed now. To me, that's a win.
>
>
>
> While I can appreciate that 6to4 is far from perfect, and can create broken
> situations - I will also admit to using 6to4 on more than an occasional
> basis ... whether that be because:
>
>   - my aircard gets a public IPv4 address, and thus 6to4 spins up
>   automatically
>   - my Linksys CPE, out of the box, does 6to4 (SLAAC-advertising a prefix)
>   - thus all of my home PCs do it as well (Win*, Ubuntu, etc.)
>
> I find 6to4 to be far superior to no IPv6 connectivity, far easier than
> launching a TSP client (which I also have, just in case) ... and, in fact,
> to largely "just work" for all of my machines.  More relays will do nothing
> but make this better, and as native IPv6 becomes  available I will happily
> (and automatically!) move to that instead.
>
>
> /TJ ... also a happy Comcast 6RD-beta user right now, so technically I am
> not using 6to4 at home *right now* (but will be using 6to4 again after June
> 30th, when the 6RD trial ends).
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 20:35:22 -0500
> From: "Curran, David" <David.Curran at windstream.com>
> Subject: Bandwidth growth
> To: "nanog at nanog.org" <nanog at nanog.org>
> Message-ID: <C9D4FCC7.B4B5%david.curran at windstream.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I'm interested in any evidence (even anecdotal) that general Internet usage
> (and more importantly, link utilization) has increased at higher rates in
> the last 6-12 months than in previous periods.  Any graphs or otherwise
> would be greatly appreciated.  The purpose is for an internal research
> project and this data will only be used internally and will not be shared,
> nor will the sources.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> David Curran  I  New Technology Planning  I  Windstream
> O-864.331.7132  I  C-864.905.0522 I david.curran at windstream.com<mailto:
> david.curran at windstream.com>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 21:55:30 -0400
> From: "Patrick W. Gilmore" <patrick at ianai.net>
> Subject: Re: Bandwidth growth
> To: NANOG list <nanog at nanog.org>
> Message-ID: <2AE1BD67-2C59-4333-A5D1-9FE9B61EA438 at ianai.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> On Apr 20, 2011, at 9:35 PM, Curran, David wrote:
>
> > I'm interested in any evidence (even anecdotal) that general Internet
> usage (and more importantly, link utilization) has increased at higher rates
> in the last 6-12 months than in previous periods.  Any graphs or otherwise
> would be greatly appreciated.  The purpose is for an internal research
> project and this data will only be used internally and will not be shared,
> nor will the sources.
>
> <https://stats.linx.net/aggregate.html>
> <http://www.ams-ix.net/historical-traffic-data/>
> <http://de-cix.net/content/network.html>
> <http://www.seattleix.net/agg.htm>
> <http://www.torix.net/stats.php>
>
> Etc.
>
> I don't know if that proves your theory.  And one could argue public IX
> stats are actually not representative of growth, since many networks move
> peers to private connections as they grow.  But it is data, and it is
> available.
>
> --
> TTFN,
> patrick
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 10:36:54 +0800
> From: Adrian Chadd <adrian at creative.net.au>
> Subject: Re: Bandwidth growth
> To: "Patrick W. Gilmore" <patrick at ianai.net>
> Cc: NANOG list <nanog at nanog.org>
> Message-ID: <20110421023654.GE13776 at skywalker.creative.net.au>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> If it's a true research project, wouldn't you really be interested in both
> evidence for/against? :-)
>
> Just my 2c here,
>
>
> Adrian
>
> On Wed, Apr 20, 2011, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote:
> > On Apr 20, 2011, at 9:35 PM, Curran, David wrote:
> >
> > > I'm interested in any evidence (even anecdotal) that general Internet
> usage (and more importantly, link utilization) has increased at higher rates
> in the last 6-12 months than in previous periods.  Any graphs or otherwise
> would be greatly appreciated.  The purpose is for an internal research
> project and this data will only be used internally and will not be shared,
> nor will the sources.
> >
> > <https://stats.linx.net/aggregate.html>
> > <http://www.ams-ix.net/historical-traffic-data/>
> > <http://de-cix.net/content/network.html>
> > <http://www.seattleix.net/agg.htm>
> > <http://www.torix.net/stats.php>
> >
> > Etc.
> >
> > I don't know if that proves your theory.  And one could argue public IX
> stats are actually not representative of growth, since many networks move
> peers to private connections as they grow.  But it is data, and it is
> available.
> >
> > --
> > TTFN,
> > patrick
> >
>
> --
> - Xenion - http://www.xenion.com.au/ - VPS Hosting - Commercial Squid
> Support -
> - $24/pm+GST entry-level VPSes w/ capped bandwidth charges available in WA
> -
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 22:13:24 -0400
> From: Martin Millnert <millnert at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Bandwidth growth
> To: "Patrick W. Gilmore" <patrick at ianai.net>
> Cc: NANOG list <nanog at nanog.org>
> Message-ID: <BANLkTim08-kM4b_UDQpT7z6xqub00JREnA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Wed, Apr 20, 2011 at 9:55 PM, Patrick W. Gilmore <patrick at ianai.net>
> wrote:
> > On Apr 20, 2011, at 9:35 PM, Curran, David wrote:
> >
> >> I'm interested in any evidence (even anecdotal) that general Internet
> usage (and more importantly, link utilization) has increased at higher rates
> in the last 6-12 months than in previous periods. ?Any graphs or otherwise
> would be greatly appreciated. ?The purpose is for an internal research
> project and this data will only be used internally and will not be shared,
> nor will the sources.
> >
> > <https://stats.linx.net/aggregate.html>
> > <http://www.ams-ix.net/historical-traffic-data/>
> > <http://de-cix.net/content/network.html>
> > <http://www.seattleix.net/agg.htm>
> > <http://www.torix.net/stats.php>
>
> Growth unsurprisingly also varies by region:
> http://www.msk-ix.ru/eng/traffic.html
> It has seen plenty of growth recently.
>
> If any MSK-IX staff reads this, a 3-, 5- or all-year graph would be an
> interesting add!
>
> > I don't know if that proves your theory. ?And one could argue public IX
> stats are actually not representative of growth, since many networks move
> peers to private connections as they grow. ?But it is data, and it is
> available.
>
> Aggregate IX statistics also fail to identify what part of the growth
> is due to people moving traffic onto IX:es, from private connections
> (transits).  It is certainly data, aggregate data. I wouldn't hang my
> heart-lung machine off of it's accuracy in predicting individual
> networks short-term traffic developments though, so to speak. :)
>
> Regards,
> Martin
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2011 21:32:47 -0700
> From: Jess Petty <jess.petty at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: NEBS compliant Server
> To: NANOG <nanog at nanog.org>
> Message-ID: <BANLkTik3tgNQ3VQiirw-gLtvki8wJhTvmg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> >
> > We use Sun Netra.
> >
> Thanks,
> Jess
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2011 12:05:54 +0530
> From: Savyasachi Choudhary <savyasachi.choudhary at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: NANOG Digest, Vol 37, Issue 121
> To: nanog at nanog.org
> Message-ID: <BANLkTinC_uVkaPm+9GbP7UkckMvNaz=8Vg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I have a doubt in ISIS.
> While redistributing routes from other protocols, how the metric is
> decided?
> OSPF has deccribed this in RFC 2328 Section 16.4 :
>
>                '4) Let X be the cost specified by the preferred routing
> table
>
>            entry for the ASBR/forwarding address, and Y the cost
>            specified in the LSA.  X is in terms of the link state
>            metric, and Y is a type 1 or 2 external metric.
>
>        (5) Look up the routing table entry for the destination N.  If
>            no entry exists for N, install the AS external path to N,
>            with next hop equal to the list of next hops to the
>            forwarding address, and advertising router equal to ASBR.
>            If the external metric type is 1, then the path-type is set
>            to type 1 external and the cost is equal to X+Y.  If the
>            external metric type is 2, the path-type is set to type 2
>            external, the link state component of the route's cost is X,
>
> and the type 2 cost is Y.'
>
> What is the behavior in ISIS?
>
> Regards,
> Savyasachi
> 7676077879
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 6:01 AM, <nanog-request at nanog.org> wrote:
>
> > Send NANOG mailing list submissions to
> >        nanog at nanog.org
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >        https://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/listinfo/nanog
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >        nanog-request at nanog.org
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> >        nanog-owner at nanog.org
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of NANOG digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >   1. Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer... (Jack Bates)
> >   2. Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer... (Mark Andrews)
> >   3. Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer... (Jack Bates)
> >   4. Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer... (Mark Andrews)
> >   5. Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer... (Joel Jaeggli)
> >   6. Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer... (Owen DeLong)
> >   7. Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer... (Mark Andrews)
> >   8. Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer... (Matthew Kaufman)
> >   9. Re: IPv6 - a noobs prespective (Joel Jaeggli)
> >  10. Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer... (Jack Bates)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2011 18:00:19 -0600
> > From: Jack Bates <jbates at brightok.net>
> > Subject: Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...
> > To: George Bonser <gbonser at seven.com>
> > Cc: nanog at nanog.org
> > Message-ID: <4D532A93.50504 at brightok.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >
> > On 2/9/2011 5:47 PM, George Bonser wrote:
> > > I have yet to see a broadband provider that configures a network so
> that
> > > individual nodes in the home network get global IPs.
> > Bridge only CPE's given off this node.
> >
> >     1043 IP addresses handed out
> >     1024 Unique interfaces
> >
> > Looks like customers aren't always big on more than 1 IP. :)
> >
> >
> > Jack
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 11:00:45 +1100
> > From: Mark Andrews <marka at isc.org>
> > Subject: Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...
> > To: david raistrick <drais at icantclick.org>
> > Cc: nanog at nanog.org
> > Message-ID: <20110210000045.EA41D9DCA79 at drugs.dv.isc.org>
> >
> >
> > In message <alpine.BSF.2.00.1102091459200.15471 at murf.icantclick.org>,
> > david rai
> > strick writes:
> > > On Wed, 9 Feb 2011, Jens Link wrote:
> > >
> > > > Scott Helms <khelms at ispalliance.net> writes:
> > > >
> > > >> IPv6 for some ISPs will be extraordinarily painful because of legacy
> > > >> layer 2 gear
> > > >
> > > > I don't feel sorry for them. We know that IPv6 is coming for how
> long?
> > > > 15years? 10year? 5years? Well if you only read the mainstream media
> you
> > >
> > > And at what point during that time did they have any vendor gear they
> > > could purchase that -would- support v6?   At -best- during the last 5
> > > years, but I'd put money on that even today they can't purchase gear
> with
> > > adequate v6 support.
> >
> > And who's fault is that?  The ISP's and the vendors.  The ISP's
> > could have been requesting IPv6 support.  The ISP's could have been
> > running trials and providing feedback to the vendors.  The vendors
> > could have asked the ISP's to trail their IPv6 products.
> >
> > We have been saying for years "make sure you are ready".  That means
> > buying and testing equipment.  Lots of those that tested went on to
> > production years ago.
> >
> > As a vendor we like feedback on our products, good or bad.  It's
> > hard to work in a vacuum.
> >
> > --
> > Mark Andrews, ISC
> > 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
> > PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742                 INTERNET: marka at isc.org
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2011 18:01:46 -0600
> > From: Jack Bates <jbates at brightok.net>
> > Subject: Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...
> > To: "Robert E. Seastrom" <rs at seastrom.com>
> > Cc: nanog at nanog.org
> > Message-ID: <4D532AEA.2090505 at brightok.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >
> > On 2/9/2011 5:56 PM, Robert E. Seastrom wrote:
> > > Or 6rd and go native on their permanent prefix as the forklift upgrade
> > > schedule allows.  Oh well, it's better than nothing or Crummier Grade
> > NAT.
> >
> > ds-lite tends to be friendlier LSN from various tests, and is native v6.
> >
> >
> > Jack
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 11:07:26 +1100
> > From: Mark Andrews <marka at isc.org>
> > Subject: Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...
> > To: "George Bonser" <gbonser at seven.com>
> > Cc: nanog at nanog.org
> > Message-ID: <20110210000726.3CABE9DCC09 at drugs.dv.isc.org>
> >
> >
> > In message <
> > 5A6D953473350C4B9995546AFE9939EE0BC1397D at RWC-EX1.corp.seven.com>, "
> > George Bonser" writes:
> > > > Cost's might be lower but service will be worse. NAT breaks a lot of
> > > > applications file sharing will not work properly and running your own
> > > > web server at home will not work properly. Well you always get what
> > > you
> > > > pay for and people will buy any crap if it is cheap enough.
> > > >=20
> > > > Jens
> > >
> > > While that is true, it is no worse than the situation right now.  In
> the
> > > US, the vast majority of users are already behind a NAT (I would say
> > > over 90% of them are) so they are already experiencing this breakage.
> =20
> >
> > But for the most part they can work around breakages with a single NAT.
> > Double NAT prevents most of the work arounds working.
> >
> > Mark
> > --
> > Mark Andrews, ISC
> > 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
> > PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742                 INTERNET: marka at isc.org
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2011 16:08:10 -0800
> > From: Joel Jaeggli <joelja at bogus.com>
> > Subject: Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...
> > To: George Bonser <gbonser at seven.com>
> > Cc: nanog at nanog.org
> > Message-ID: <4D532C6A.20209 at bogus.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >
> > On 2/9/11 3:43 PM, George Bonser wrote:
> > >> Almost none of the broadband providers in the US NAT their customers.
> > >
> > > Well, I suppose I have been unlucky then because every single one I
> have
> > > had has NATed me.  I had a "real" IP when I had dialup, but I got NAT
> > > when I went broadband.  I have a friend that has another service and
> she
> > > is NATed too.  Boot up in her network and you get 192.168.1.x
> >
> > The the cpe... In all likelihood it has a public ip on the outside.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Wed, 9 Feb 2011 16:10:46 -0800
> > From: Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com>
> > Subject: Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...
> > To: david raistrick <drais at icantclick.org>
> > Cc: nanog at nanog.org
> > Message-ID: <582356A9-5ADC-4244-8BA0-EE1F2F3EF388 at delong.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >
> >
> > On Feb 9, 2011, at 3:16 PM, david raistrick wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, 9 Feb 2011, Owen DeLong wrote:
> > >
> > >>>> I don't feel sorry for them. We know that IPv6 is coming for how
> long?
> > >>>> 15years? 10year? 5years? Well if you only read the mainstream media
> > you
> > >>>
> > >>> And at what point during that time did they have any vendor gear they
> > could purchase that -would- support v6?   At -best- during the last 5
> years,
> > but I'd put money on that even today they can't purchase gear with
> adequate
> > v6 support.
> > >>>
> > >> This is largely the result of the fact that they did not demand it
> from
> > their
> > >> vendors during that time.
> > >
> > >
> > > I was purchasing for and building small SP networks during that time.
> > >
> > > Requiring v6 of our vendors would have meant we just never got
> anything,
> > so we'd have never provided service.   Come to think if it, maybe it
> -would-
> > have been better for everyone involved (except those of us who just got
> > paychecks and experience out of it) to just simply not do it - but we
> didn't
> > know that at the time 15 years ago!
> > >
> > Requiring it delivered day one, sure. Putting in a requirement for "Will
> > support" so that they are required to provide an upgrade path, OTOH, to
> me
> > seemed like it was basic good business sense. It worked out pretty well
> for
> > the organizations I was working for back then. We got upgradeable
> hardware
> > and the vendors got awareness of the demand. Admittedly, I wasn't working
> in
> > the last mile arena. However, pressuring vendors is possible without
> > sacrificing immediate needs.
> >
> > >
> > > Vendor C and J don't provide gear that fits into all network topologies
> > (WISPs, MTU DSL, and smallish ADSL roll outs come to mind, certain during
> > the time period in question.  Sure, they eventually bought products in
> those
> > markets...but even still, I had sub 6 figure budgets to build with - I
> > certainly had no leverage).
> > >
> > I don't think that networks with sub-6-figure buildouts are the ones
> we're
> > too worried about right now.
> > They can probably upgrade for sub-6-figure amounts.
> >
> > Owen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 7
> > Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 11:22:31 +1100
> > From: Mark Andrews <marka at isc.org>
> > Subject: Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...
> > To: Scott Helms <khelms at ispalliance.net>
> > Cc: nanog at nanog.org
> > Message-ID: <20110210002231.23F0E9DCFDD at drugs.dv.isc.org>
> >
> >
> > In message <4D531B52.70404 at ispalliance.net>, Scott Helms writes:
> > > On 2/9/2011 5:48 PM, Owen DeLong wrote:
> > > > On Feb 9, 2011, at 12:00 PM, david raistrick wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> On Wed, 9 Feb 2011, Jens Link wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> Scott Helms<khelms at ispalliance.net>  writes:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> IPv6 for some ISPs will be extraordinarily painful because of
> legacy
> > > >>>> layer 2 gear
> > > >>> I don't feel sorry for them. We know that IPv6 is coming for how
> > long?
> > > >>> 15years? 10year? 5years? Well if you only read the mainstream media
> > you
> > > >> And at what point during that time did they have any vendor gear
> they
> > coul
> > > d purchase that -would- support v6?   At -best- during the last 5
> years,
> > but
> > > I'd put money on that even today they can't purchase gear with adequate
> > v6 su
> > > pport.
> > > >>
> > > > This is largely the result of the fact that they did not demand it
> from
> > the
> > > ir
> > > > vendors during that time.
> > > >
> > > > Owen
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Absolutely, just as the ISPs didn't see demand, and don't today, from
> > > their users and thus the circle of blame is complete :)
> >
> > And some of their customers have been asking for IPv6 all along.
> >
> > I started asking my ISP at home in 2003.  I suspect if all the ISPs
> > here were honest they would say that they have had a trickle of
> > IPv6 requests for the last 8 years.
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > Date:    Mon, 16 Jun 2003 09:54:05 +1000
> > To:      Mark_Andrews at isc.org
> > From:    cablesupport at optusnet.com.au
> > Subject: Re: [TT#6556559] HELPDESK Feedback Form - Mon Jun 16 09:52:50
> 2003
> >
> > Return-Path: nobody at pts.optusnet.com.au
> > Delivery-Date: Mon Jun 16 10:00:00 2003
> > Return-Path: <nobody at pts.optusnet.com.au>
> > X-Original-To: marka at farside.isc.org
> > Delivered-To: marka at farside.isc.org
> > X-Loop:  pts
> > Reply-To: cablesupport at optusnet.com.au
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > Thank you for your email regarding the OptusNet Cable service.
> >
> > At the moment there are no plans for any IPv6 deployment, when this is
> due
> > to happen we will notify all customers.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Alex
> > OptusNet Cable Technical Support
> >
> > --
> > Mark Andrews, ISC
> > 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
> > PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742                 INTERNET: marka at isc.org
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 8
> > Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2011 16:27:51 -0800
> > From: Matthew Kaufman <matthew at matthew.at>
> > Subject: Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...
> > To: Jack Bates <jbates at brightok.net>
> > Cc: nanog at nanog.org
> > Message-ID: <4D533107.5010202 at matthew.at>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >
> > On 2/9/2011 4:00 PM, Jack Bates wrote:
> > > On 2/9/2011 5:47 PM, George Bonser wrote:
> > >> I have yet to see a broadband provider that configures a network so
> that
> > >> individual nodes in the home network get global IPs.
> > > Bridge only CPE's given off this node.
> > >
> > >     1043 IP addresses handed out
> > >     1024 Unique interfaces
> > >
> > > Looks like customers aren't always big on more than 1 IP. :)
> > >
> > >
> > > Jack
> > >
> > >
> > And meanwhile Comcast has announced one /64-per-household service for
> > IPv6... guess they didn't get the memo from Owen about how every class
> > of home appliances will need its own subnet.
> >
> > Matthew Kaufman
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 9
> > Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2011 16:29:54 -0800
> > From: Joel Jaeggli <joelja at bogus.com>
> > Subject: Re: IPv6 - a noobs prespective
> > To: Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com>
> > Cc: nanog at nanog.org
> > Message-ID: <4D533182.6020505 at bogus.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >
> > On 2/9/11 2:22 PM, Owen DeLong wrote:
> > > There have been IPv6 for dummies sessions at many past NANOGs.
> > >
> > > If NANOG is willing to provide time and space for them at future
> events,
> > I will
> > > be happy to conduct the tutorial sessions.
> >
> > program committee would no doubt love to hear from you.
> >
> >
> > > Owen
> > >
> > > On Feb 9, 2011, at 10:30 AM, Mike Lyon wrote:
> > >
> > >> With the recent allocation of the last existing IPv4 /8s (which now
> kind
> > of
> > >> puts pressure on going v6), it would be wonderful if at the next
> couple
> > of
> > >> NANOGs if there could be an IPv6 for dummies session or two :)
> > >>
> > >> -Mike
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 10:22 AM, Jack Bates <jbates at brightok.net>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> On 2/9/2011 12:03 PM, William Herrin wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> The thing that terrifies me about deploying IPv6 is that apps
> > >>>> compatible with both are programmed to attempt IPv6 before IPv4.
> This
> > >>>> means my first not-quite-correct IPv6 deployments are going to break
> > >>>> my apps that are used to not having and therefore not trying IPv6.
> But
> > >>>> that's not the worst part... as the folks my customers interact with
> > >>>> over the next couple of years make their first not-quite-correct
> IPv6
> > >>>> deployments, my access to them is going to break again. And again.
> And
> > >>>> again. And I won't have the foggiest idea who's next until I get the
> > >>>> call that such-and-such isn't working right.
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>> What scares me most is that every time I upgrade a router to support
> > needed
> > >>> hardware or some badly needed IPv6 feature, something else breaks.
> > Sometimes
> > >>> it's just the router crashes on a specific IPv6 command entered at
> CLI
> > (C)
> > >>> or as nasty as NSR constantly crashing the slave (J); the fixes
> > generally
> > >>> requiring me to upgrade again to the latest cutting edge releases
> which
> > >>> everyone hates (where I'm sure I'll find MORE bugs).
> > >>>
> > >>> The worst is when you're the first to find the bug(which I'm not even
> > sure
> > >>> how it's possible given how simplistic my configs are, isis
> > multitopology,
> > >>> iBGP, NSR, a few acls and route-maps/policies), it takes 3-6 months
> or
> > so to
> > >>> track it down, and then it's put only in the next upcoming release
> (not
> > out
> > >>> yet) and backported to the last release.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Jack (hates all routers equally, doesn't matter who makes it)
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 10
> > Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2011 18:30:46 -0600
> > From: Jack Bates <jbates at brightok.net>
> > Subject: Re: Looking for an IPv6 naysayer...
> > To: matthew at matthew.at
> > Cc: nanog at nanog.org
> > Message-ID: <4D5331B6.60902 at brightok.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >
> > On 2/9/2011 6:27 PM, Matthew Kaufman wrote:
> > >
> > > And meanwhile Comcast has announced one /64-per-household service for
> > > IPv6... guess they didn't get the memo from Owen about how every class
> > > of home appliances will need its own subnet.
> >
> > I wonder if their RIR justification was for /64 to household or /48. :)
> >
> > Jack
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > NANOG mailing list
> > NANOG at nanog.org
> > https://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/listinfo/nanog
> >
> > End of NANOG Digest, Vol 37, Issue 121
> > **************************************
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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> End of NANOG Digest, Vol 39, Issue 68
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