IPv6 Routing table will be bloated?

Sven Olaf Kamphuis sven at cb3rob.net
Tue Oct 26 14:37:51 CDT 2010

2.      RIPE has always issued PI space to LIRs (ISPs are by
         definition LIRs).

ISPs are not per-se LIRs.

LIRs register IP space on behalf of customers

customers that do not make delegations themselves (i'm quite sure you 
don't put each and every one of your access customers into whois, for one 
thing because that would violate privacy laws :P do not need to be a LIR, 
and can just do so on PI space.

Shared hosting ISPs also do not make subdelegations and generally don't 
even uses the ips on a one-specific-customer-per-ip basis.

So no, ISP's do not have to be a LIR, and LIRs do not have to be an ISP.
(in fact, we are considering moving our LIR activities to a completely 
seperate legal entity from our internet activities).

as a LIR is just a buro that issues IP space and does not nessesarily own 
or operate a network.


Sven Olaf Kamphuis,
CB3ROB Ltd. & Co. KG
Address: Koloniestrasse 34         VAT Tax ID:      DE267268209
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RIPE:    CBSK1-RIPE                e-Mail:          sven at cb3rob.net
<penpen> C3P0, der elektrische Westerwelle


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On Tue, 26 Oct 2010, Owen DeLong wrote:

> On Oct 26, 2010, at 11:19 AM, Sven Olaf Kamphuis wrote:
>> On Tue, 26 Oct 2010, Randy Carpenter wrote:
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> On 10/26/2010 12:04 PM, Nick Hilliard wrote:
>>>>> In practice, the RIRs are implementing sparse allocation which makes
>>>>> it
>>>>> possible to aggregate subsequent allocations. I.e. not as bad as it
>>>>> may
>>>>> seem.
>>>> Except, if you are given bare minimums, and you are assigning out to
>>>> subtending ISPs bare minimums, those subtending ISPs will end up with
>>>> multiple networks. Some of them are BGP speakers. I can't use sparse
>>>> allocation because I was given minimum space and not the HD-Ratio
>>>> threshold space.
>>> Wait... If you are issuing space to ISPs that are multihomed, they should be getting their own addresses. Even if they aren't multihomed, they should probably be getting their own addresses. Why would you be supplying them with address space if they are an ISP?
>>> -Randy
>> to my knowledge, RIPE still does not issue ipv6 PI space.
>> so giving them their own space, is "problematic" to say the least.
> RIPE issues PI space in a couple of different forms...
> 1.	Sponsoring LIR can pay 50 Euros/year and subsequently
> 	bill the recipient whatever they choose for the PI space.
> 2.	RIPE has always issued PI space to LIRs (ISPs are by
> 	definition LIRs).
> 3.	This is NANOG. NA != EU.
> Owen

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