NANOG Digest, Vol 29, Issue 81

Stephen Tandy stephen.tandy at trigenis.com
Tue Jun 29 08:41:40 CDT 2010


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-----Original Message-----
From: nanog-request at nanog.org <nanog-request at nanog.org>
Sent: 28 June 2010 23:52
To: nanog at nanog.org <nanog at nanog.org>
Subject: NANOG Digest, Vol 29, Issue 81

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: BGP Tool for Simulation (Luigi Iannone)
   2. Re: BGP Tool for Simulation (Tom Pipes)
   3. Penetration test vendors (George Bonser)
   4. Re: BGP Tool for Simulation (Christopher Gatlin)
   5. Global Crossing POC (Steven Fischer)
   6. Re: Broadband initiatives - impact to your network?
      (Christopher Morrow)
   7. Re: Broadband initiatives - impact to your network?
      (Nick Hilliard)
   8. Re: Broadband initiatives - impact to your network?
      (Jonathan Feldman)
   9. Re: Broadband initiatives - impact to your network?
      (Stefano Gridelli)
  10. Re: Broadband initiatives - impact to your network? (Randy Bush)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 15:02:40 +0200
From: Luigi Iannone <luigi at net.t-labs.tu-berlin.de>
Subject: Re: BGP Tool for Simulation
Cc: nanog at nanog.org
Message-ID:
	<0701129F-F610-4C2A-A1C1-E684E839750C at net.t-labs.tu-berlin.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I recently came across NetKit that seems to offer what you are looking for...

http://wiki.netkit.org/index.php/Main_Page



L.

On Jun 28, 2010, at 12:32 , Lynchehaun, Patrick (Patrick) wrote:

> 
> You could use load sbgp/mrtd script to load route dumps. There is also bgpsimple http://code.google.com/p/bgpsimple/wiki/README
> This also brings up another question, anyone know of v6 rib tool on unix to load v6 route dumps.
> 
> Tks,
>    Patrick.
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 27 Jun 2010 22:04:54 -0400
> From: Jack Carrozzo <jack at crepinc.com>
> Subject: Re: BGP Tool for Simulation
> To: giulianocm at uol.com.br
> Cc: North American Network Operators Group <nanog at merit.edu>
> Message-ID:
>        <AANLkTik_iMlcU-GbwJim4VbqT0BtEeAd6AfNBBTn9ArS at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> Roll quagga / BGPd on *nix and bring up sessions with whatever you like.
> 
> For full tables, you can either hack up a few lines of perl to output a bunch of 'network a.b.c.d' lines from any of the available text looking glasses into the bgpd conf, or just bring up ebgp-multihop session with one of your borders or one of your friends. Prefix lists, communities, etc are all supported.
> 
> -Jack Carrozzo
> 
> On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 9:32 PM, GIULIANOCM (UOL) <giulianocm at uol.com.br>wrote:
> 
>> People,
>> 
>> I am looking for a tool (free or not) to simulate BGP full internet
>> route table peering and injection using real CISCO and JUNIPER routers.
>> 
>> We have found some power tools like Spirent or Agilent but they are a
>> too expensive to acquire for now.
>> 
>> The main idea is to have a software tool for unix or linux system,
>> that supports to simulate a cloud a carrier or an ISP, to work with
>> real routers, establishing connection using BGP protocol and injecting
>> on this real routers the full internet routing table - ipv4 or ipv6.
>> 
>> Do you know some collection of tools (software tools) that we can use
>> to do this kind of work ?
>> 
>> It is possible to collect full internet routing table and inject it to
>> a real router using a software for simulate real conditions ?
>> 
>> Besides, the tool will need some additional features in simulation
>> like the set of communities, local preference, med and other BGP attributes.
>> 
>> What do you recommend for this tasks ?
>> 
>> Thanks a lot,
>> 
>> Giuliano
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> NANOG mailing list
> NANOG at nanog.org
> https://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/listinfo/nanog
> 
> End of NANOG Digest, Vol 29, Issue 79
> *************************************
> 




------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 08:52:53 -0500 (CDT)
From: Tom Pipes <tom.pipes at t6mail.com>
Subject: Re: BGP Tool for Simulation
To: lists at billfehring.com, giulianocm at uol.com.br
Cc: nanog at merit.edu
Message-ID: <3368983.1033751277733173382.JavaMail.root at zimbra>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8



Hello Giuliano, 



Along with the recommendation of dynamips, I would suggest downloading gns3, which ties into dynamips.? You can run the same version of IOS that you are working with in production, and there are versions for Windows/*nix. 



http://www.gns3.net/ 



It acts more like an emulators at first glance, and does not seem to have the same limitations as some of the other simulators out there.? Just make sure you have the hardware to support it. 



Thanks, 



--- 
Tom Pipes 
T6 Broadband/ 
Essex Telcom Inc 
tom.pipes at t6mail.com 


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bill Fehring" <lists at billfehring.com> 
To: giulianocm at uol.com.br 
Cc: "North American Network Operators Group" <nanog at merit.edu> 
Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 11:37:17 PM 
Subject: Re: BGP Tool for Simulation 

Oi Giulianao, 

I've used this in the past to dump a lot of routes into test networks: 

http://code.google.com/p/bgpsimple/ 

Tutorial: http://evilrouters.net/2009/08/21/getting-bgp-routes-into-dynamips-with-video/ 

There's a similar project written in python, but I can't find it right now. 

HTH, 

-Bill Fehring 

On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 18:32, GIULIANOCM (UOL) <giulianocm at uol.com.br> wrote: 
> People, 
> 
> I am looking for a tool (free or not) to simulate BGP full internet route 
> table peering and injection using real CISCO and JUNIPER routers. 
> 
> We have found some power tools like Spirent or Agilent but they are a too 
> expensive to acquire for now. 
> 
> The main idea is to have a software tool for unix or linux system, that 
> supports to simulate a cloud a carrier or an ISP, to work with real routers, 
> establishing connection using BGP protocol and injecting on this real 
> routers the full internet routing table - ipv4 or ipv6. 
> 
> Do you know some collection of tools (software tools) that we can use to do 
> this kind of work ? 
> 
> It is possible to collect full internet routing table and inject it to a 
> real router using a software for simulate real conditions ? 
> 
> Besides, the tool will need some additional features in simulation like the 
> set of communities, local preference, med and other BGP attributes. 
> 
> What do you recommend for this tasks ? 
> 
> Thanks a lot, 
> 
> Giuliano 
> 
> 



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 08:01:37 -0700
From: "George Bonser" <gbonser at seven.com>
Subject: Penetration test vendors
To: <nanog at nanog.org>
Message-ID:
	<5A6D953473350C4B9995546AFE9939EE09EA4E70 at RWC-EX1.corp.seven.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

I would like to thank everyone who provided their recommendations both
on and off list.  There was a lot of off-list response but not exactly
what I had expected to see.  I had expected to see a lot of different
vendors but also expected to see a couple that several would recommend.
That really didn't happen.  Practically every single suggestion was a
different vendor.  There was one vendor that got multiple
recommendations but it was also the only vendor that multiple people
recommended avoiding.  In fact, it was the only vendor that anyone
recommended to avoid.

As I now have a list of many vendors that I didn't know existed, I will
sort through the mail later today or tomorrow and consolidate the list.

The lesson seems to be that everyone seems to have someone different
that they trust to test their network and that a more in-depth look at
the recommendations is in order.

Thanks again, everyone.

George




------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 11:25:30 -0500
From: Christopher Gatlin <chris at travelingtech.net>
Subject: Re: BGP Tool for Simulation
To: Tom Pipes <tom.pipes at t6mail.com>
Cc: nanog at merit.edu
Message-ID:
	<AANLkTikC-yZHxZGP-BOZh_aY0o5FwJoZbc4yeDf_WdG4 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

These folks make a tester that loads up BGP very nicely.

http://www.spirent.com/

http://www.spirent.com/Solutions-Directory/Smartbits.aspx


Chris


On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Tom Pipes <tom.pipes at t6mail.com> wrote:

>
>
> Hello Giuliano,
>
>
>
> Along with the recommendation of dynamips, I would suggest downloading
> gns3, which ties into dynamips.  You can run the same version of IOS that
> you are working with in production, and there are versions for Windows/*nix.
>
>
>
> http://www.gns3.net/
>
>
>
> It acts more like an emulators at first glance, and does not seem to have
> the same limitations as some of the other simulators out there.  Just make
> sure you have the hardware to support it.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> ---
> Tom Pipes
> T6 Broadband/
> Essex Telcom Inc
> tom.pipes at t6mail.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Fehring" <lists at billfehring.com>
> To: giulianocm at uol.com.br
> Cc: "North American Network Operators Group" <nanog at merit.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 11:37:17 PM
> Subject: Re: BGP Tool for Simulation
>
> Oi Giulianao,
>
> I've used this in the past to dump a lot of routes into test networks:
>
> http://code.google.com/p/bgpsimple/
>
> Tutorial:
> http://evilrouters.net/2009/08/21/getting-bgp-routes-into-dynamips-with-video/
>
> There's a similar project written in python, but I can't find it right now.
>
> HTH,
>
> -Bill Fehring
>
> On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 18:32, GIULIANOCM (UOL) <giulianocm at uol.com.br>
> wrote:
> > People,
> >
> > I am looking for a tool (free or not) to simulate BGP full internet route
> > table peering and injection using real CISCO and JUNIPER routers.
> >
> > We have found some power tools like Spirent or Agilent but they are a too
> > expensive to acquire for now.
> >
> > The main idea is to have a software tool for unix or linux system, that
> > supports to simulate a cloud a carrier or an ISP, to work with real
> routers,
> > establishing connection using BGP protocol and injecting on this real
> > routers the full internet routing table - ipv4 or ipv6.
> >
> > Do you know some collection of tools (software tools) that we can use to
> do
> > this kind of work ?
> >
> > It is possible to collect full internet routing table and inject it to a
> > real router using a software for simulate real conditions ?
> >
> > Besides, the tool will need some additional features in simulation like
> the
> > set of communities, local preference, med and other BGP attributes.
> >
> > What do you recommend for this tasks ?
> >
> > Thanks a lot,
> >
> > Giuliano
> >
> >
>
>


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 15:37:01 -0400
From: Steven Fischer <sfischer1967 at gmail.com>
Subject: Global Crossing POC
To: NANOG list <nanog at nanog.org>
Message-ID:
	<AANLkTikxjEe_VzkVNse5g6rx0n0ApcvjeeLO_hzYKVUv at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Can someone from Global Crossing contact me off-list regarding some routing
anomolies we are seeing?  Thanks.

-- 
To him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his
glorious presence without fault and with great joy


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 17:46:00 -0400
From: Christopher Morrow <morrowc.lists at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Broadband initiatives - impact to your network?
To: Jonathan Feldman <jf at feldman.org>
Cc: nanog at nanog.org
Message-ID:
	<AANLkTilfqNvjwj3cH9RA9hj_J2-f7N-DxZ4H60sAfkS4 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 9:03 AM, Jonathan Feldman <jf at feldman.org> wrote:
> I'm one of the reporters who covers broadband and cloud computing for
> InformationWeek magazine (www.informationweek.com), and it's interesting to
> me that one of the issues with cloud adoption has to do with the limited
> pipe networks available in this country. For example, it's not feasible to
> do a massive data load through the networks that are currently available --
> you need to FedEx a hard drive to Amazon. ?Holy cow, it's SneakerNet for the
> 21st Century!

is this a 'this country' bandwidth problem or the problem that moving
10tb of 'corporate data' in a 'secure fashion' from 'office' to
'cloud' really isn't a simple task? and that cutting a DB over at a
point in time 'next tuesday!' is far easier done  by shipping a
point-in-time copy of the DB via sata-drive than 'holy cow copy this
over the corp ds3, while we make sure not to kill it for mail/web/etc
other corporate normal uses' ?

The broadband plan stuff mostly covers consumers, not enterprises,
most of the (amazon as the example here) cloud folks offer
disk-delivery options for businesses.

you seem to be comparing apples to oranges, no?

-chris



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 22:59:59 +0100
From: Nick Hilliard <nick at foobar.org>
Subject: Re: Broadband initiatives - impact to your network?
To: nanog at nanog.org
Message-ID: <4C291B5F.5030708 at foobar.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On 27/06/2010 14:03, Jonathan Feldman wrote:
> For example, it's not feasible to do a massive data load through the
> networks that are currently available -- you need to FedEx a hard drive
> to Amazon.  Holy cow, it's SneakerNet for the 21st Century!

Never underestimate the bandwidth of a stationwagon full of
$current_high_density_storage_media.

Nick



------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 18:26:41 -0400
From: Jonathan Feldman <jf at feldman.org>
Subject: Re: Broadband initiatives - impact to your network?
To: Christopher Morrow <morrowc.lists at gmail.com>
Cc: nanog at nanog.org
Message-ID: <8B403135-63AC-4C32-A77A-5483AD6A4931 at feldman.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

More than one person has pointed out that offline media will always be  
higher bandwidth than transmission lines (but nobody with such  
elegance and hilarity as Nick Hilliard's last post).  Point taken.   
The question, in my mind, is whether it's reasonable to ask that  
regional providers reach the same bar as privately owned campus  
networks.

I don't agree with you, Christopher, that the broadband plan won't  
affect corporate users.  I know that this list _mostly_ consists of  
operators, but I've gotten some offline responses to my initial query  
that seem to indicate that enterprise users utilize SOHO (consumer  
grade, but with higher speeds) for various branch office needs.  Also,  
when a technology gets "consumerized" it tends to create interesting  
effects in terms of features and price points.

Think of it this way: where would corporate mobile phones be without  
the consumer effect?  We'd still be carrying them around in bags and  
only corporate officers would have them.

I appreciate everyone's response!

On Jun 28, 2010, at 5:46 PM, Christopher Morrow wrote:

> On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 9:03 AM, Jonathan Feldman <jf at feldman.org>  
> wrote:
>> I'm one of the reporters who covers broadband and cloud computing for
>> InformationWeek magazine (www.informationweek.com), and it's  
>> interesting to
>> me that one of the issues with cloud adoption has to do with the  
>> limited
>> pipe networks available in this country. For example, it's not  
>> feasible to
>> do a massive data load through the networks that are currently  
>> available --
>> you need to FedEx a hard drive to Amazon.  Holy cow, it's  
>> SneakerNet for the
>> 21st Century!
>
> is this a 'this country' bandwidth problem or the problem that moving
> 10tb of 'corporate data' in a 'secure fashion' from 'office' to
> 'cloud' really isn't a simple task? and that cutting a DB over at a
> point in time 'next tuesday!' is far easier done  by shipping a
> point-in-time copy of the DB via sata-drive than 'holy cow copy this
> over the corp ds3, while we make sure not to kill it for mail/web/etc
> other corporate normal uses' ?
>
> The broadband plan stuff mostly covers consumers, not enterprises,
> most of the (amazon as the example here) cloud folks offer
> disk-delivery options for businesses.
>
> you seem to be comparing apples to oranges, no?
>
> -chris




------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 28 Jun 2010 18:30:24 -0400
From: Stefano Gridelli <sgridelli at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Broadband initiatives - impact to your network?
To: Nick Hilliard <nick at foobar.org>
Cc: nanog at nanog.org
Message-ID:
	<AANLkTimHkZKOL2wIb7hw5PUs2Y29B9jVLtcW9G-DAV6e at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

... as Andrew T teaches ... :D

On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 5:59 PM, Nick Hilliard <nick at foobar.org> wrote:

> On 27/06/2010 14:03, Jonathan Feldman wrote:
> > For example, it's not feasible to do a massive data load through the
> > networks that are currently available -- you need to FedEx a hard drive
> > to Amazon.  Holy cow, it's SneakerNet for the 21st Century!
>
> Never underestimate the bandwidth of a stationwagon full of
> $current_high_density_storage_media.
>
> Nick
>
>


------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2010 07:50:10 +0900
From: Randy Bush <randy at psg.com>
Subject: Re: Broadband initiatives - impact to your network?
To: Jonathan Feldman <jf at feldman.org>
Cc: nanog at nanog.org
Message-ID: <m2iq52bwm5.wl%randy at psg.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

> The question, in my mind, is whether it's reasonable to ask that
> regional providers reach the same bar as privately owned campus
> networks.

you are comparing LAN to WAN, never a bright idea

randy



------------------------------

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