Lightly used IP addresses

William Herrin bill at
Sun Aug 15 15:14:08 UTC 2010

On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 12:23 AM, John Curran <jcurran at> wrote:
> In
> between meetings, this topic is probably best suited for the arin-discuss mailing
> list as opposed to the nanog list.


Is arin-discuss still a closed members-only list? I pay ARIN every
year for my AS# registration but the last time I asked to join
arin-discuss, I was refused because I wasn't a LIR, thus not a member.

Please: don't ask folks to take discussions of public concern to a closed forum.

On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 5:53 AM, John Curran <jcurran at> wrote:
> On Aug 15, 2010, at 1:20 AM, David Conrad wrote:
>> It has been depressing to watch participants in ARIN
>> (in particular) suggest all will be well if people would just
>> sign away their rights via an LRSA,
> Actually, you've got it backwards. The Legacy RSA provides specific
> contractual rights which take precedence over present policy or any
> policy that might be made which would otherwise limit such rights:

A strict (albeit ridiculous) reading of the LRSA says that if I
bit-torrent some music using my LRSA-covered IP addresses and lose in
court (4.d.ii) ARIN can terminate the contract (14.b.i) and revoke the
numbers (14.e.i). In fact, any way I run afoul of ARIN's ever changing
policies (15.d) leads to 14.b and 14.e.1. Not that ARIN would, of
course, but the contract gives them the power.

Absent the LRSA, the status quo leaves ARIN unable to revoke and
reassign legacy IP addresses without placing itself at major risk,
requiring a litigious rather than contractual resolution to exactly
what rights ARIN and the legacy registrants have. My defacto rights
are less certain but rather more extensive than what the LRSA offers.

On Sun, Aug 15, 2010 at 7:34 AM, Randy Bush <randy at> wrote:
> the fact is that the lrsa does require the legacy holder to sign away
> rights.  and if you assert that they have no special/different rights,
> then why is [section 9] there?

Because that's intended to be part of the price, Randy. In exchange
for gaining enforceable rights with respect to ARIN's provision of
services, you quit any claim to your legacy addresses as property,
just like with all the addresses allocated in the last decade and a
half. The other part of the price was supposed to be the $100 annual

Unfortunately, the LRSA contains another price which I personally
consider too high: voluntary termination revokes the IP addresses
instead of restoring the pre-contract status quo. Without that
balancing check to the contract, I think a steady creep in what ARIN
requires of the signatory is inevitable... and the affirmative actions
ARIN can require the registrant to perform in order to maintain the
contract are nearly unlimited.

Bill Herrin

William D. Herrin ................ herrin at  bill at
3005 Crane Dr. ...................... Web: <>
Falls Church, VA 22042-3004

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