Are we really this helpless? (Re: isprime DOS in progress)

a.harrowell at a.harrowell at
Sun Jan 25 22:49:49 UTC 2009

-original message-
Subject: Re: Are we really this helpless? (Re: isprime DOS in progress)
From: Michael Dillon <wavetossed at>
Date: 25/01/2009 10:16 pm

> I think each point above is true -- BCP38 is indeed a technique, but
> failure to universally implement it defaults to (almost) a tragedy of the
> commons.
> After ~10 years, it is surreal to me that we, as a community, are still
> grappling with issues where it could be beneficial for the Internet
> community at-large. I mean, it _is_ a BCP.

The community isn't grappling with the issue. For the most part the NANOG
community has implemented BCP 38. The problem is that there are lots
of ISPs that are not part of the community and I get the sense that the
this number continues to grow. In a sense NANOG has a problem with
dwindling market-share. A shrinking percentage of ISPs are part of the
NANOG community, and NANOG participants have less and less influence
on decisions in the ISPs that they work for, probably because most of
them do not work for ISPs but work for telephone companies which have
expanded into the ISP business. And yes, I too work for a telco that
is now also a major ISP in its telco market area.

p.s. Even when Dan Senie and I drafted RFC2827/BCP38, we were doing nothing

more than documenting what everyone (well, maybe not everyone) already knew
> anyway -- that we all need to bite the bullet and just do it.

Personally, I think that the network operations community represented in
needs to do more outreach to forums where the telecoms community gather
than ghettoizing Internet ops and engineering. It's all well and good to
have NANOG
lists and meetings, but once things like BCP-38 reach consensus, how many
members would consider going to something like FutureNet Expo and presenting
on the topic?

--Michael Dillon

Both to telcos and to non-NA operators.

Remember that everything is going to IP. All the interesting voice applications seem to be based on Asterisk in the end, China Mobile is apparently building a flat-IP net  with media servers. 

And there are plenty of clever innovative people outside NA. 

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