Yahoo and their mail filters..

Zaid Ali zaid at
Wed Feb 25 21:08:30 UTC 2009

I think a major reason why recipients click the 'Spam' button is because often times its not obvious how to identify the opt out link in the email. You can perhaps put the opt out link on the top of the email so that the user clicks that instead of the 'Spam' button. There is also the issue of weather the user trusts the opt out link, I have been in discussions where data shows that most users don't generally trust it.

On the subject of feedback loop I think that if you sign up to receive FBL emails then you must do something about it. I think its useless to sign up for FBL's and not take any action because ESP's monitor FBL rate so if they feel that you are not taking action then you can expect to see your emails go to a junk folder or be subjected to greylisting. 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Beckman" <beckman at>
To: "Suresh Ramasubramanian" <ops.lists at>
Cc: nanog at
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 12:28:46 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: Yahoo and their mail filters..

On Wed, 25 Feb 2009, Suresh Ramasubramanian wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 10:38 PM, Peter Beckman <beckman at> wrote:
>>  Why the hell can't AOL integrate the standard listserv commands integrated
>>  into many subscription emails into a friggin' button in their email
>>  client, right next to "Spam" (or even in place of it) that says
>>  "Unsubscribe?"
> Because a lot of spammers would prefer that people simply unsub from
> their lists rather than they get blocked?
> And because unsub urls could lead to a lot of nastiness if theres a
> truly malicious spammer?
> And because .. [lots of other reasons]
> On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 10:38 PM, Peter Beckman ALSO wrote:
>> I realize it could be used badly if globalized, but if AOL got off their
>> duff and vetted some of the higher volume truly honest subscription
>> emailers and allowed their emails to activate the Spam->Unsub button, it
>> might save everyone some headaches.

  As I said (but you clipped), the suggestion could (and would likely) be
  abused if turned on globally, but if AOL vetted some of the more popular
  subscription mailings where people were clicking spam rather than
  unsubscribe for trusted sources, it could work.

> There are a few (sender driven) initiatives to move towards a trusted
> unsubscribe, but ..

  I think in order for an Unsubscribe button to be implemented by Gmail,
  Yahoo, AOL, etc, there would have to be some sort of internally reviewed
  list of trusted senders for which each company had a mail admin contact
  for (technical implementation not applicable for this discussion).

  Working together to communicate openly about subscription email with
  trusted parties would help (in theory) to reduce the effects of clueless
  end users who lazily click "Spam" and cause headaches for both senders and
  receivers of legitimate subscription email.

Peter Beckman                                                  Internet Guy
beckman at                       

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