Article on spammers and their infrastructure

Nick Hilliard nick at
Tue Dec 22 18:03:33 CST 2009

On 22/12/2009 23:36, Jon Lewis wrote:
> On Tue, 22 Dec 2009, Joel Jaeggli wrote:
>> On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 4:24 PM, Jon Lewis <jlewis at> wrote:
>>>> Should US based networks be willing to route RIPE "ASSIGNED PA" space
>>>> customers provide?

I would argue not and the bofh in me would be inclined to announce more
specifics if I saw someone announcing my PA space from another ASN.  But
I'm more into the ixp sort of thing these days rather than isps.

> My interpretation of the above is ASSIGNED PA is the equivalent of my
> assigning IP space to a customer who either buys transit (connectivity)
> from us or colo's or buys server hosting from us where they will use
> that IP space.

ASSIGNED PA space is intended to be announced by the provider which
operates the LIR only (i.e. the space is associated with the provider).
It's not intended for multihoming, and if you want multihoming space, you
need PI address space.

> As an End User in the RIPE region, if you need/want PI space, are you
> not able to get that directly from RIPE?

You can get it directly from the RIPE NCC, but it's more usual to get it
via your provider's LIR, the important word being "via".  The LIR just
passes on your request form.

The RIPE NCC is very specific about the language used here.  In the context
of all RIPE docs and policies, "allocate" means to bulk-delegate resources
to a LIR.  "assign" is the process of delegating the address space to the
end-user, whether that end-user is a customer or the provider itself.

So, when the RIPE NCC says:

>  The RIPE NCC no longer allocates PI address space.

... what they mean is that they no longer delegate bulk blocks of PI
address space to LIRs so that the LIR can then assign the address space to

Instead, what happens these days is:

> [...]The RIPE NCC will make PI assignments when justified.

i.e. if you want a PI block, you fill out a form, send it to your LIR, who
sends it to the RIPE NCC.  The NCC will then register the address space to
the end-user.

> So, if you're not multihomed with as one of your providers, is
> it appropriate for them to sell you ASSIGNED PA space which you'll use
> elsewhere?  I don't think so.

it is completely inappropriate at many levels - imo.


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