breadcrumbs and collusion

J. Oquendo sil at
Thu Sep 25 13:18:09 CDT 2008

On Thu, 25 Sep 2008, bmanning at wrote:

>  NANOG makes a fine archive of discoverable material in a court case
> intending to show collusion to drive folks out of business.
>  One presumes that each ISP here has some form of AUP and rules on 
> self-preservation roughly along the lines of "if there is material 
> impact to my network or my customers, I can do whatever it takes to 
> mitigate the traffic/intrusion".  One does not need to collaberate
> with others before enforcing your own AUP.  
> --bill

If we were to stick to the rules: It should also, and very notably,
define what sanctions will be applied if a user breaks the AUP.
Compliance with this policy should, as usual, be measured by
regular audits.

However, AUP's aren't a definitive mandatory or regulatory control
they're CYA (Cover Your Ass) based and have been known to be put
in place solely for that purpose. It IS your own backyard, but what
about the contractual agreements that can potentially be broken
when "oops I didn't know I was nullrouting that business because it
passes through that AS" occurs. Are you willing to simply say "it's
a matter of my opinion/judgement regardless if people like it or
not". What happens to that potential agreement.

I'm not siding with anyone here, I despise spammers, malware sites
as much as anyone else, but I think this process of "pull the plug"
needs to be reviewed fairly and accurately. Else how would you like
it if my attitude veered towards "Well gee, AS32042332498732 never
audited their network, now look at this filth, gee might as well
block them too" Since many would like to justify their argument
based on the "It's my party and I'll cry if I want to" theme, then
imagine the potential damage if everyone took this attitude. How
many networks would break?

Who here votes to cut off some major AS's? Everybody's Internet,
Rackspace maybe? I can give a list of some major organizations
as can others that flagrantly allow things to go on. I see no
mention of throwing these businesses into Salems Lot 2008.

J. Oquendo

"A good district attorney can indict a ham sandwich
if he wants to ... The accusations harm as much as
the convictions ... they're obviously harmful or it
wouldn't be news.." - John Carter

wget -qO -|perl

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