the Intercage mess

Stephen Sprunk stephen at
Wed Sep 24 22:35:29 CDT 2008

William Pitcock wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 19:28 -0700, Paul Ferguson wrote:
>> On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 7:24 PM, Randy Bush <randy at> wrote:
>>> John Bambenek wrote:
>>>> When there is no law to speak of all that is left is tribal justice.
>>> this way lies lynch mobs
>>> shall we at least apply a vernier of civilization
>> I think that _more_than_reasonable_ background research, historical record, etc. have met the qualifications of "civilized vernier". The outcry was, and is not, arbitrary.
> No, but forcing them offline now that they are taking a new approach to
> handling abuse is ridiculous.
> Intercage are reaching out to the anti-abuse community and yet some people on NANOG keep interfering with the cleanup process. How do you expect them to clean up their network and return to normal operations (with considerably less abuse) if it keeps being disconnected?
> The shit isn't even there anymore. These kids have moved it elsewhere.  Intercage have learned their lesson, just leave them alone and let the people who have *real* problems (e.g. me, Andrew Kirch of AHBL, Spamhaus, Gadi, etc.) with Intercage deal with this.

They _claim_ they have learned their lesson and cleaned up their act.  
However, that does not erase the _years_ that they knew what was going 
on and happily took miscreants' money for polluting the commons.  The 
police and courts are impotent, so it falls to the victims to take 
action.  I hate lynch mobs as much as the next guy, but the law _does_ 
allow people to defend themselves and protect themselves from future 
harm by proven bad actors.

They could be lying; we have no proof they're not, so given their track 
record, we must assume they are.  What's to stop them from next week 
going back to the folks they've disconnected and taking their money 
again, again abusing the community.

Even if they're not lying, application of the Death Penalty, as 
obviously justified in this case, is the _only_ way to discourage others 
from doing the same thing by instilling the fear of the same consequences.


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