Atrivo/Intercage: Now Only 1 Upstream

Christian Koch christian at
Wed Sep 17 12:28:21 CDT 2008

On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 1:07 PM, Christopher Morrow
<morrowc.lists at> wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 1:01 PM, Gadi Evron <ge at> wrote:
>> On Wed, 17 Sep 2008, Skywing wrote:
>>> Putting things in the automated bogon feeds (e.g. Team Cymru) that are not
>>> strictly bogons (unallocated addresses) is likely to very quickly erode
>>> trust in those services, if that is what you are suggesting.
>> We all want a "really really bad stuff" BGP feed for anyone who wants it,
>> but the Internet is not ready for that.
> hrm, so actually there's a lot of supporting infrastructure that is
> necessary (or could be necessary) to implement something of that sort
> in any decent sized network. Provided you wanted to sinkhole the
> trafffic off somewhere to 'do the right thing' not just null0 the
> traffic, of course.

right on.

> There's the additional issue of allowing a third party to
> manage/traffic-engineer inside your network which might upset some
> operations folks. If you can build a list on your own in a reasonable
> fashion with supporting information and high confidence level that's
> one story, if this list comes from "someone else" whom you don't even
> have a billing-relationship with... it's hard to sell that when
> something bad happens.

and this is the exact reason i will not implement any of these
auto-bgp feeds or drop lists in my network.

now not only do i have internal operation folks fat fingers to worry
about,but what if one of these third parties, as you pointed out, with
no money changing hands or formal agreements,has fat fingers one day,
and now adds a legitimate allocation to the feed/list?

then what?

> Certainly not everyone feels this way (see 'popularity' of the
> existing RBL/xbl lists) but in a larger network, or one that makes
> money ...
> How about providing some open-source intelligence in a centralized and
> machine-parsable fashion (perhaps with community input of intel even)
> which would allow better decsions to be made?

> -Chris


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