an over-the-top data center

Måns Nilsson mansaxel at
Mon Dec 1 09:58:11 UTC 2008

--On söndag, söndag 30 nov 2008 23.05.01 -0500 "Patrick W. Gilmore"
<patrick at> wrote:

> On Nov 30, 2008, at 10:50 PM, Niels Bakker wrote:

>>> I was going to say 'this probably hinders customers adoption at  
>>> NetNod', but I know for a fact the "probably" is superfluous.

> I didn't say it would stop everyone.  Of course some people will not be
> deterred, but some absolutely have.

In Sweden, the reason to not choose NetNod (and to go with the smaller
exchangepoints) is price and only price. No swedish ISP I know of has
stated that the fact that the Stokab fibre is bought by the IXP and not the
ISP is a problem per se. Some might have a better wholesale deal than
NetNod has but that is still just about price.  

The alternative IPXen were started for two reasons, 

1. Price. At the time the first one got going NetNod was running OC48 SRP
as its fabric. (Anyone remember that technology?). The price of SRP
technology was simply too high for many small players, and required Cisco
gear, etc. 

2. Convenience and reduced marginal cost, ie. #1 again. Since the first
alternative (SOL-IX) was and is distributed, really small ASes could join
for the price of a patch cable and an interface.

> Now compare that to forcing every single participant to use unknown fiber
> paths into an unknown facility.  When are these fibers groomed, and onto
> which unknown paths?  Which fiber maintenance schedules might impact me
> without my knowledge?  Which construction projects elsewhere in the city
> might take me down and there's no way for me to even predict that?  Etc.,
> etc.

The fiber paths into these facilities are national security issues. Expect
them to be guarded accordingly (as in running them in specially blasted
tunnels 30-60 meters down in the ground for the last aggregated path to the
facility). I have not experienced more unpredictability nor more outages
because Netnod buys the cable than when the ISP does. Same cable. And
Stokab does indeed know where the cables are. 

> I would prefer to take my chances with the known quantity,
> thankyouverymuch.  Feel free to do with your network as you please.

Just because you know where the cable is the backhoes won´t find it? 
Måns Nilsson			M A C H I N A

I'll eat ANYTHING that's BRIGHT BLUE!!
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