Colocation in the US.

Tony Varriale tvarriale at
Wed Jan 24 20:55:50 UTC 2007

The current high watt cooling technologies are definately more expensive 
(much more).  Also, a facility would still need traditional forced to 
maintain the building climate.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Todd Glassey" <tglassey at>
To: "Tony Varriale" <tvarriale at>; <nanog at>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 2:09 PM
Subject: Re: Colocation in the US.

> If the cooling is cheaper than the cost of the A/C or provides a backup, 
> its a no brainer.
> Todd Glassey
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Tony Varriale <tvarriale at>
>>Sent: Jan 24, 2007 11:20 AM
>>To: nanog at
>>Subject: Re: Colocation in the US.
>>I think the better questions are: when will customers be willing to pay 
>>it?  and how much? :)
>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: "Mike Lyon" <mike.lyon at>
>>To: "Paul Vixie" <vixie at>
>>Cc: <nanog at>
>>Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 11:54 AM
>>Subject: Re: Colocation in the US.
>>> Paul brings up a good point. How long before we call a colo provider
>>> to provision a rack, power, bandwidth and a to/from connection in each
>>> rack to their water cooler on the roof?
>>> -Mike
>>> On 24 Jan 2007 17:37:27 +0000, Paul Vixie <vixie at> wrote:
>>>> drais at (david raistrick) writes:
>>>> > > I had a data center tour on Sunday where they said that the way 
>>>> > > they
>>>> > > provide space is by power requirements.  You state your power
>>>> > > requirements, they give you enough rack/cabinet space to *properly*
>>>> > > house gear that consumers that
>>>> >
>>>> > "properly" is open for debate here.  ...  It's possible to have a
>>>> > facility built to properly power and cool 10kW+ per rack.  Just that
>>>> > most
>>>> > colo facilties aren't built to that level.
>>>> i'm spec'ing datacenter space at the moment, so this is topical.  at
>>>> 10kW/R
>>>> you'd either cool ~333W/SF at ~30sf/R, or you'd dramatically increase
>>>> sf/R
>>>> by requiring a lot of aisleway around every set of racks (~200sf per 4R
>>>> cage) to get it down to 200W/SF, or you'd compromise on W/R.  i suspect
>>>> that the folks offering 10kW/R are making it up elsewhere, like 50sf/R
>>>> averaged over their facility.  (this makes for a nice-sounding W/R
>>>> number.)
>>>> i know how to cool 200W/SF but i do not know how to cool 333W/SF unless
>>>> everything in the rack is liquid cooled or unless the forced air is
>>>> bottom->top and the cabinet is completely enclosed and the doors are
>>>> never
>>>> opened while the power is on.
>>>> you can pay over here, or you can pay over there, but TANSTAAFL.  for 
>>>> my
>>>> own purposes, this means averaging ~6kW/R with some hotter and some
>>>> colder, and cooling at ~200W/SF (which is ~30SF/R).  the thing that's
>>>> burning me right now is that for every watt i deliver, i've got to burn 
>>>> a
>>>> watt in the mechanical to cool it all.  i still want the rackmount
>>>> server/router/switch industry to move to liquid which is about 70% more
>>>> efficient (in the mechanical) than air as a cooling medium.
>>>> > > It's a good way of looking at the problem, since the flipside of
>>>> > > power
>>>> > > consumption is the cooling problem.  Too many servers packed in a
>>>> > > small
>>>> > > space (rack or cabinet) becomes a big cooling problem.
>>>> >
>>>> > Problem yes, but one that is capable of being engineered around 
>>>> > (who'd
>>>> > have ever though we could get 1000Mb/s through cat5, after all!)
>>>> i think we're going to see a more Feinman-like circuit design where 
>>>> we're
>>>> not dumping electrons every time we change states, and before that 
>>>> we'll
>>>> see a standardized gozinta/gozoutta liquid cooling hookup for rackmount
>>>> equipment, and before that we're already seeing Intel and AMD in a
>>>> watts-per-computron race.  all of that would happen before we'd 
>>>> air-cool
>>>> more than 200W/SF in the average datacenter, unless Eneco's chip works
>>>> out
>>>> in which case all bets are off in a whole lotta ways.
>>>> --
>>>> Paul Vixie

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