Multi-6 [WAS: OT - Vint Cerf joins Google]

JORDI PALET MARTINEZ jordi.palet at consulintel.es
Mon Sep 12 04:35:03 UTC 2005


I don't think is failing ... On the other way around: looking at the
adoption perspectives and compared with other technologies, transition
stages, and so on, is going much faster than expected ...

Regards,
Jordi




> De: "Patrick W. Gilmore" <patrick at ianai.net>
> Responder a: <owner-nanog at merit.edu>
> Fecha: Sat, 10 Sep 2005 14:42:33 -0400
> Para: <nanog at nanog.org>
> CC: "Patrick W. Gilmore" <patrick at ianai.net>
> Asunto: Re: Multi-6 [WAS: OT - Vint Cerf joins Google]
> 
> 
> On Sep 10, 2005, at 10:17 AM, Joe Abley wrote:
> 
>>> [Perhaps this thread should migrate to Multi6?]
>> 
>> multi6 hasn't existed for some time. The "level-3 shim" approach to
>> multi-homing that was the primary output of multi6 is being
>> discussed in shim6.
> 
> Guess I'm behind.  I'll have to subscribe to shim6.
> 
> 
>>> Suppose they not only have no plan but couldn't really put
>>> together a plan to support 200 customers?  Does this mean Google,
>>> or any other content provider, is "unworthy" of globally routeable
>>> space?
>> 
>> Yes, according to the current RIR policies. [So the determination
>> of "unworthy" above has been made, in effect, by RIR members.]
> 
> And this is why v6 has failed and will continue to fail.
> 
> The Internet is no longer an academic experiment.  It is not run by
> the 'best technology'.  It is run by the best business results.
> 
> Content providers and other large business, without who's funds the
> Internet would fail, have a right not to be tied to a single
> provider.  And while I admit I am not up-to-date on v6 multi-homing
> strategies, the ones I have seen are either evil, unworkable or
> ridiculous, and simply will not fly.
> 
> 
>> 's not as though this line of thinking hasn't been followed many,
>> many times before. The counter-argument goes like this:
>> 
>> 1. There is more v6 space than there is v4 space, by virtue of the
>> fact that the address is 96 bits wider.
>> 
>> 2. Because there is vastly more v6 space than v4 space, if
>> entitlement to PI space in v6 was opened up the chances are many
>> more people would have v6 PI space than currently have v4 PI space.
> 
> This assumption has more holes in it than swiss cheese.
> 
> 
>> 3. Every PI assignment/allocation takes up a routing slot in every
>> router in the DFZ.
>> 
>> 4. Given 2 and 3, there is potential for the amount of state in the
>> DFZ to exceed the capabilities of the network to hold and process
>> it (e.g. enormous RIBs, soaring processor requirements for dealing
>> with updates, etc).
> 
> Ignoring the problems with #2, what is made of the idea that each AS
> might only have a single block, since blocks are so much larger?
> (And lots of other questions I'm sure you guys have already covered
> which are probably not on-topic for NANOG.)
> 
> 
>> It's possible that the number of PI assignments might not be that
>> high, and the scaling properties in practice might not be so bad.
>> However, you only get to find this out after you've opened the
>> floodgates, and if it turns out that it doesn't scale, it's hard to
>> push the water back into the reservoir.
>> 
>> The goal in shim6 is to find a mechanism which provides all the
>> functional benefits of multi-homing without holding all the state
>> in DFZ routers.
> 
> Perhaps the goal ... was chosen poorly?
> 
> 
>> There seems to be some ongoing perception that various protocol/
>> research organisations have no idea about the value of multi-homing
>> for enterprises in the real network, and hence ignore it. While
>> that might have once been the case (I certainly remember thinking
>> so around 1997 whilst shouting on the ipng list), I don't believe
>> it's the case today.
> 
> That is _absolutely_ the impression I get from speaking to v6
> supporters today.  The profess otherwise, but the solutions and
> technologies they suggest disprove their protestations.
> 
> Guess I better get over to shim6 and see what I'm missing out on.
> 
> -- 
> TTFN,
> patrick




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