Cisco Router best for full BGP on a sub 5K bidget 7500 7200 or other vendor ?

Alexander Hagen alexander at etheric.net
Mon Feb 9 07:56:16 UTC 2004


Well this has been quite a stimulating discussion!

It appears the sweet spot would be as follows:

7507 Dual A/C Power.....~ 750
Dual RSP4 with 256 MEM .~900
VIP2-50 with 128 MB RAM.~400

Now this can all be obtained for about 2000.00 perhaps...


The problem is the Fast Ethernet Interfaces

CX-FEIP-2TX  ( 400?)
PA-FE-TX (250)
 

The PA-2FE-TX is about 1600.00- better to get a second PA-FE-TX with
second VIP2-50

Now why is the CX-FEIP-2TX so much cheaper than the PA-2FE-TX ?????



Alexander Hagen
Etheric Networks Incorporated, A California Corporation
527 Sixth Street No 371261
Montara CA 94037
Main Line: (650)-728-3375
Direct Line: (650) 728-3086
Cell: (650) 740-0650 (Does not work at our office in Montara)
Home: (Emgcy or weekends) 650-728-5820
fax: (650) 240-1750
http://www.etheric.net

-----Original Message-----
From: Roldan, Brad [mailto:BRoldan at covad.com] 
Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2004 12:40 PM
To: Alexander Hagen
Subject: RE: Cisco Router best for full BGP on a sub 5K bidget 7500 7200
or other vendor ?

Alex,

   I used the RS3000 extensively in a previous life for a Metro E
provider. These are great Layer 2 switches. When it comes to Layer 3
services, Riverstone has been lacking. The last firmware revision I
looked at was in the 9.x series. At that time, routing protocols, such
as BGP, were still evolving in terms of basic support. For instance, at
the time BGP communities were not supported. I don't know hoe
Riverstone's support for Layer 3 routing has evolved since 9.x.

   Hope this helps.

Brad
--
Covad Communications
2510 Zanker Road
San Jose, CA 95131
+1-408-434-2048
broldan at covad.com


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-nanog at merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog at merit.edu] On Behalf Of
Alexander Hagen
Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 5:49 AM
To: nanog at merit.edu
Subject: RE: Cisco Router best for full BGP on a sub 5K bidget 7500 7200
or other vendor ?



Montara is between Pacifica and Half Moon Bay. 

Everyone has a different perspective - but all valid. However I would
say if you are going to go Cisco - and you have no other BGP gear under
Smartnet - you might look at the 3725 maxed out. It is new and you will
get support and available for 5,000.00 online, equipped with two onboard
Fast Ethernet ports.

You are likely to buy only single FE modules at 350.00 rather than 2FE's
which are hard to find for cheap, and upgrading memory to 256 Megs DRAM
is only an addl 150.00. 

With that said....

I found a rather stupid article that gave the Riverstone high marks.

http://www.nwfusion.com/reviews/2003/0714rev.html?page=1

http://research.mwjournal.com/data/jspdetail?id=1025118725_252&type=PROD
&src=mwave&x=841473789

The RS 3000 has 20 gbps non blocking.


I am likely to go with the Riverstone. I think I can get it for under 2K
with 24 10/100 ports, 256 MB of memory, and 20 gbps non blocking
switching fabric.

Although I will likely place a Cisco box behind it (eventually) for
IPSec and the like.
 
Platform Features
Feature-rich Wire-speed Services
* IP routing, unicast, and multicast
* Routing in hardware on each line card
* LSR and LER MPLS support in hardware
* RSVP-TE and LDP label distribution and signaling
* MPLS traffic engineering support
* Security (ACLs, L2 filters)
* Layer 4 application-flow switching and QoS
* Network Address Translation (NAT)
* Hardware-based Rate Limiting
* Jumbo Frame support
* VLANs based on port or protocol
* Server Load Balancing (LSNAT)
Highly Fault Tolerant
* Redundant power supplies (RS 3000)
* Hot-swappable media modules
* Standards-based VRRP
* Layer 2 and 3 redundant protocol support
Extensive Management
* Wire-speed full RMON/RMON2
* SNMP manageable
* SSH
* RADIUS
* TACACS+
* RS-232 (out-of-band management)
* Command Line Interface (CLI)
Interfaces
10/100 Base-TX 100 Base-FX 1000 Base-SX
1000 Base-LX 1000 Base-TX 1000 Base-LH (70Km)
T1/E1 T3/E3 ATM-OC-3c
Up to 4,096 VLANs
Up to 256,000 routes
Up to 20,000 security/access control filters
Up to 512,000 Layer 4 application flows
Up to 256,000 Layer 2 MAC addresses
RS 1000: 12 Gbps non-blocking switching fabric
RS 1000: 4.6 million packets per second routing throughput
RS 3000: 20 Gbps non-blocking switching fabric
RS 3000: 9.5 million packets per second routing throughput
MTBF (predicted) > 200,000 hours
Physical
Dimensions: 3.25" H x 17" W x 18.5" D
(8.25 cm x 43.2 cm x 47 cm)
Weight: 20 lbs. (9.1 kg)
Environmental Specifications
Operating Temp: +0º to +40ºC (32º to 104ºF)
Non-operating Temp: -40º to +70ºC (-40º to 158ºF)
Operating Relative 10% to 90% (non-condensing)
Humidity:
Non-operating 5% to 95% maximum
Relative Humidity: (non-condensing)
Altitude, Operating 10,000 ft (3,000 m) maximum
and Non-operating:
Shock and Vibration:GR63
Power Requirements
AC Input current: 3.0 A - 1.5 A
AC Input voltage: 100 to 240 VAC
AC Frequency: 50 to 60 Hz
DC Input current: 8.0 A
DC Input voltage: -48 to -60 VAC
Agency Standards and Specifications
Safety: Certified UL1950, CSA C22.2 No. 950,
EN60950, IEC950, and 72/73/EEC
Electromagnetic Compliant with the requirements of
compatibility: FCC Part 15, CSA C108.8, EN55022,
VCCI, EN50082-1, and 89/336/EEC
Standards Supported
IETF Standards Support
RFC No. Title
RFC 768 UDP
RFC 783 TFTPv2
RFC 791 IP
RFC 792 ICMP
RFC 793 TCP
RFC 826 ARP
RFC 854 Telnet
RFC 951 BootP
RFC 1058 RIP v1
RFC 1075 DVMRP
RFC 1112 Host Extensions for IP Multicasting
RFC 1157 SNMPv1
RFC 1195 Use of OSI IS-IS for Routing in TCP/IP and Dual Environments
RFC 1245 OSPF Protocol Analysis
RFC 1246 Experience with the OSPF Protocol
RFC 1256 ICMP Router Discover Message
RFC 1265 BGP Protocol Analysis
RFC 1266 Experience with the BGP Protocol
RFC 1267 BGP-3
RFC 1269 Definitions of Managed Objects for BGP-3
RFC 1332 PPP IPCP
RFC 1349 Type of Service in the Internet Protocol Suite
RFC 1397 Default Route Advertisement in BGP-2 and BGP-3
RFC 1403 BGP OSPF Interaction
RFC 1519 CIDR: an Address Assignment and Aggregation Strategy
RFC 1542 Clarifications and Extensions for the Bootstrap Protocol
RFC 1552 PPP IPXCP
RFC 1570 PPP LCP Extensions
RFC 1586 Guidelines for Running OSPF Over Frame Relay Networks
RFC 1587 OSPF NSSA Option
RFC 1631 IP NAT
RFC 1638 PPP BCP
RFC 1657 Definitions of Managed Objects for BGP-4 using SMIv2
RFC 1661 PPP
RFC 1662 PPP in HDLC-like Framing
RFC 1745 BGP-4/IDRP for IP and OSPF Interaction
RFC 1765 OSPF Database Overflow
RFC 1771 BGP-4
RFC 1772 Application of BGP in the Internet
RFC 1773 Experience with the BGP-4 Protocol
RFC 1774 BGP-4 Protocol Analysis
RFC 1793 Extending OSPF to Support Demand Circuits
RFC 1812 Router Requirements
RFC 1918 Address Allocation for Private Internet Space
RFC 1923 RIPv1 Applicability Statement for Historic Status
RFC 1930 Guidelines for creation, selection, and registration of an AS
RFC 1966 BGP Route Reflection Alternative to full mesh IBGP
RFC 1990 PPP MLP
RFC 1997 BGP Communities Attribute
RFC 1998 BGP Community Attribute in Multi-home Routing
RFC 2082 RIP-2 MD5 Authentication
RFC 2131 DHCP
RFC 2225 Classical IP and ARP over ATM
RFC 2236 Internet Group Management Protocol, Version 2
RFC 2270 Using a Dedicated AS for Sites Homed to a Single Provider
RFC 2328 OSPFv2
RFC 2329 OSPF Standardization Report
RFC 2236 IGMP-2
RFC 2338 VRRP
RFC 2362 PIM-SM
RFC 2370 OSPF Opaque LSA Option
RFC 2385 Protection of BGP Sessions via the TCP MD5 Signature Option
RFC 2390 Inverse Address Resolution Protocol
RFC 2391 LSNAT Load Sharing using IP Network Address Translation
RFC 2427 Multi-protocol Interconnect over Frame Relay
RFC 2439 BGP Flap Damping
RFC 2547 BGP/MPLS VPNs
RFC 2453 RIPv2
RFC 2519 A Framework for Inter-Domain Route Aggregation
RFC 2570 Introduction to Version 3 of the Internet-standard Network
Management Framework
RFC 2571 An Architecture for Describing SNMP Management Frameworks
RFC 2572 Message Processing and Dispatching for the Simple Network
Management Protocol (SNMP)
RFC 2573 SNMP Applications
RFC 2574 User-based Security Model (USM) for version 3 of the Simple
Network Management Protocol (SNMPv3)
RFC 2575 View-based Access Control Model (VACM) for the Simple
Network Management Protocol (SNMP)
RFC 2576 Coexistence between Version 1, Version 2, and Version 3 of the
Internet-standard Network Management Framework
RFC 2578 Structure of Management Information Version 2 (SMIv2)
RFC 2579 Textual Conventions for SMIv2
RFC 2580 Conformance Statements for SMIv2
RFC 2615 PPP over SONET/SDH
RFC 2684 Multi-protocol Encapsulation over ATM Adaptation Layer 5
RFC 2702 Requirements for Traffic Engineering over MPLS
RFC 2763 Dynamic Hostname Exchange Mechanism for IS-IS
RFC 2796 BGP Route Reflection Alternative to full mesh IBGP
RFC 2842 Capabilities Advertisement with BGP-4
RFC 2858 Multi-protocol Extensions for BGP-4
RFC 2865 Remote Authentication Dial In User Service (RADIUS)
RFC 2866 RADIUS Accounting
RFC 2918 Route Refresh Capability for BGP-4
RFC 2925 Definitions of Managed Objects for Remote Ping, Traceroute,
and Lookup Operations
RFC 2963 Dynamic Hostname Exchange Mechanism for IS-IS
RFC 2966 Domain-wide Prefix Distribution with Two-Level IS-IS
RFC 2973 IS-IS Mesh Groups
RFC 3031 Multi-protocol Label Switching Architecture
RFC 3032 MPLS Label Stack Encoding
RFC 3036 LDP Specification
RFC 3065 Autonomous System Confederations for BGP
RFC 3137 OSPF Stub Router Advertisement
RFC 3209 RSVP-TE Extensions to RSVP for LSP Tunnels
RFC 3210 Applicability Statement for Extensions to RSVP for LSP Tunnels
IETF Standards MIB Support
RFC No. Title
RFC 1471 PPP-LCP-MIB
RFC 1472 PPP-Sec-MIB
RFC 1473 PPP-IP-NCP-MIB
RFC 1474 PPP-Bridge-NCP-MIB
RFC 1493 Bridge-MIB
RFC 1657 BGP4 using SMIv2-MIB
RFC 1595 SONET/SDH Interface Type-MIB
RFC 1695 ATM-MIB
RFC 1757 RMON-MIB
RFC 1724 RIPv2-MIB
RFC 1850 OSPFv2-MIB
RFC 1907 SNMPv2-MIB
RFC 2011 IP-MIB
RFC 2012 UDP-MIB
RFC 2013 TCP-MIB
RFC 2021 RMON2 using SMIv2-MIB
RFC 2096 IP-Forward-MIB
RFC 2115 Frame-Relay-MIB
RFC 2233 IF using SMIv2-MIB
RFC 2358 EtherLike-MIB
RFC 2495 DS1, E1, DS2, E2 Interface Types-MIB
RFC 2496 DS3/E3-MIB
RFC 2618 Radius-Auth-Client-MIB
RFC 2668 IEEE 802.3 Medium Attachment Units (MAUs)-MIB
RFC 2674 P-Bridge-MIB, Q-Bridge-MIB
RFC 2787 VRRP-MIB
Standards and Protocols
IP routing: RIPv1/v2, OSPF, BGP-4, IS-IS
Multicast support: IGMP, DVMRP, PIM-DM, PIM-SM
QoS: Application level, RSVP
IEEE 802.1D IEEE 802.1p IEEE 802.1Q IEEE 802.1x
IEEE 802.3 IEEE 802.3ad IEEE 802.3u IEEE 802.3x IEEE 802.3z


Alexander Hagen
Etheric Networks Incorporated, A California Corporation
527 Sixth Street No 371261
Montara CA 94037
Main Line: (650)-728-3375
Direct Line: (650) 728-3086
Cell: (650) 740-0650 (Does not work at our office in Montara)
Home: (Emgcy or weekends) 650-728-5820
fax: (650) 240-1750
http://www.etheric.net

-----Original Message-----
From: william at elan.net [mailto:william at elan.net] 
Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 5:19 AM
To: Alexander Hagen
Subject: Re: Cisco Router best for full BGP on a sub 5K bidget 7500 7200
or other vendor ?


7500 is your best option indeed, I'm using several of these and have
close to
300Mb passing through at max, primarily ethernet, but also have serial
and ATM interfaces; multiple BGP feeds with full table and quite complex

access lists - and its all WORKING! One thing to remember is that while 
7500 line was started long ago, there have been new router cards and VIP

cards released. So if you have 7500 with RSP4 or RSP8 and use VIP2-50 
with newear PA modules, you're really not in 1995 any more...

For VOIP you'll need different routers but I don't think you were
talking 
about using your core router to provide voip handoffs. Traffic
accounting 
is working fine with 7500 and external unix system that actually does it

though SNMP.

P.S. Where is Montara located? I see familar 650 area code and I though
I 
knew all the cities nearby, but definetly never been to Montara...

On Sat, 7 Feb 2004, Alexander Hagen wrote:

> 
> I have been looking for a sub 5K router on the used market to support
> around 30-50 megs peak traffic.
> 
> I have found the 7507/7513 but these things appear to have been
> manufactured in 1995 !
> 
> Then there is the 7206 and the 7206 VXR - I guess the 7206 itself is
> just as old as the 7507 and 7513 and the same price at the least -
> perhaps because of its form factor. 
> 
> The 7206 VXR makes me feel a little better - as it was manufactured in
> 1999?
> 
> We are looking at a pure Ethernet environment - but with the desire to
> support a lot of value added services - such as IPSEC, VoIP, traffic
> accounting. Cisco's have traditionally been good at PRI and T-1 and
T-3
> type interfaces - which we don't really need -which leads me to think
> Foundry might be an option.
> 
> Juniper appears to be at least 7,000.00 - and I am worried about
support
> - based on other articles I have seen.
> 
> So the question is would a layer 3 switch be a good idea with a lot of
> memory - for example the Cat 6509 ?
> 
> Perhaps foundry BigIron with Jetware ?
> 
> Please give me your thoughts - it is hard to believe that the 7507 and
> 7513 are my best options....
> 
> Alexander Hagen
> Etheric Networks Incorporated, A California Corporation
> 527 Sixth Street No 371261
> Montara CA 94037
> Main Line: (650)-728-3375
> Direct Line: (650) 728-3086
> Cell: (650) 740-0650 (Does not work at our office in Montara)
> Home: (Emgcy or weekends) 650-728-5820
> fax: (650) 240-1750
> http://www.etheric.net




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