williams spamhaus blacklist

Thu Sep 25 07:29:42 UTC 2003

(Apologies to nanog, I make a point of not discussing spam issues 
here, but I feel an uncontrollable urge to respond to this one as it 
concerns Spamhaus directly)

At 20:01 -0400 (GMT) 24/9/03, Leo Bicknell wrote:
>  In a message written on Wed, Sep 24, 2003 at 07:42:39PM -0400, 
> Richard Welty wrote:
>>  there's nothing alleged about it. the Eddy Marin spam gang in Boca Raton is
>>  one of the nastiest bunches of vile spamming slime you will ever see. this
>>  is all extremely well documented. go see the spamhaus site for
>>  documentation, it's all there.
>
>  What you're missing in my argument is that it doesn't matter.  I
>  have no idea who Eddy Marin is, nor do I care.

Eddy Marin is The Spam King, not your average garden-variety spammer. 
You might not care who Marin is but we unfortunately have to.

>  Blocking wcg's corporate mail servers is not the solution.

It's not a nice solution but it's sometimes the only solution 
available (to us). It's not an easy decision and it's a very rare one 
for us, but when a provider hosts a major spam gang long-term and 
looks set to continue indefinitely, escalating the issue by listing 
the corporate mail relays focuses the escalation only on the provider 
himself and not on his customers. We at that moment in time deem the 
provider to be 'knowingly supplying a spam support service'.

>  but it may also harm a lot of "innocent"
>  communications, sales talking to clients, other wiltel customers
>  requesting support, heck, the secretary ordering lunch to be
>  delivered.

The Internet is now brimming with people who are almost in tears each 
time they check their mail and sort through their spam to see if 
there's any mail in it. Well over 50% of all email on the Internet is 
now spam (most ISPs say 60%+ of their incoming mail). That a 
provider's CEO, sales staff, or the secretary ordering lunch are 
inconvenienced due to an escalation caused by them allowing known 
spammers to cause such problems for all the rest of the Internet, is 
not our prime concern. The arguments of whether it's right or wrong 
can go on indefinitely but until someone invents a better solution 
this is all we have.

>  There are laws against spam.  If you have evidence, sue in civil
>  court, or get a DA to go for it in criminal court.

That's a joke right?

>  Osama and his followers [...]

I see, perhaps I shouldn't have responded to this post afterall. But 
for the benefit of those providers on nanag who use our SBL system, 
rest assured we will be removing the escalation 'any minute now' as 
WCG are now in contact with us and I understand are pulling spammer 
plugs.

Regards,

-- 
   Steve Linford
   The Spamhaus Project
   http://www.spamhaus.org