Harassment (was Re: ELAN.NET ...)

william at elan.net william at elan.net
Tue Nov 4 10:19:54 UTC 2003

> > OK, enough is enough.  We've all had a spammer or spam site sign up, 
> > and we've all (presumably) kicked them off.  Why are you referencing 
> > data from some spam posting over 4 years old?
> Because, as I showed you, Elan is still hosting their domains.
Lets be clear about something - having our nameserver listed as one of 
dns servers for domain, does not mean we're hosting it. There are LOTs of 
domains which use our dns servers (in fact couple people at nanog receive 
free secondary dns from elan), there are also number of domains for which 
we're listed but we do not provide dns services any more (I can't really 
force somebody to remove our dns server from their domain whois, I can 
ask, but they may refuse or do not answer at all - if this is a problem, 
then I set our dns server to do reply as "NXDOMAIN", which may get their 
attention; but 99% of the time, the domain that was in dns server but is 
no more, simply has its records and configs purged from our dns server - 
that however means that our server may still answer queries about it in a 
normal caching mode, i.e. by getting data from the first listed primary 
dns and caching it on the fly without using any local configuration).

If you have  problem with any PARTICULAR domain, send email to abuse at elan.net
and clearly indicate what the problem is - you will receive a reply (within
72 hours if email is directly from user and  not from automated system). 
If the email is ccd to newsgroup (if you want to make it public), there 
will be reply to that newsgroup, but be particular about each and every  
case separately, don't just list bunch of domains (i.e. those with elan.net
and with with "-" that you sorted out of .com/.net root dns zone file). 

For others, please note that I already told all this before to Michael or 
else somebody who I'm certain he knows.
> If William would take some action and clean up the spammers on his 
> network, I wouldn't need to post about it.
There are no spammers on the network. Anybody who tries to spam, gets 
removed according to our policies, usually within first 24 hours, sometimes
if longer investigations are necessary and they try to "fight" it, then 
within 7 days or within 30 days depending on what circumstances are. 
Only one case (and it did not involve mass emailing) has ever survived 
over 30 days and to get rid of him, the change of AUP was necessary but 
this was all several years ago anyway.

And all those google references provided from 2-4 years ago are for 
companies that were not even direct customers but customers of a customers,
none are hosted on the network for long long time (several years).

> Another item of note is the phone number in ELAN.NET domain registration 
> is invalid.  William is in breach of his registration agreement, and 
> liable to lose his domain name unless he corrects this.
There are known ICANN approved ways to report invalid registration data. 
Otherwise we'll correct any wrong data on the next domain annvessary or 
when domain registrar sends a notice (as they should at least once/year) 
to check if data is correct. 

P.S. This will be the last time I answer this kind of allegations on the 
list. All these allegations are baseless as others in fact already said 
as well are simply harrassment because you have problem that I'm listing 
ip blocks you hijacked (or somebody you know based on the company you 
associate with) and posted data about in public as well as references to 
what you did. Well, if you yourself want to answer those problems, feel 
free to do so on any public list (preferably not nanog, but who am I to 
stop you...). I'll reference those posting to on the webpage for wdh/starlan
so others could see your own view on what happened and how you're connected
to mailcourier, etc.

For reference about why this is happening, please see:

William Leibzon
Elan Networks
william at elan.net

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