State Super-DMCA Too True

Kris Foster Kris.Foster at telus.com
Mon Mar 31 23:30:05 UTC 2003


Regarding common carriers, Geoff Huston wrote a good article for IPJ

http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/759/ipj_5-3/ipj_5-3_uncommon_carrier.html

Kris

(top posting because below this line is a complete mess)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen Sprunk [mailto:stephen at sprunk.org]
> Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 6:30 PM
> To: todd glassey
> Cc: North American Noise and Off-topic Gripes; Michael 
> Loftis; Robert A.
> Hayden
> Subject: Re: State Super-DMCA Too True
> 
> 
> 
> As reading your message both hurts my eyes and would take 
> excessive effort
> to reformat for a reply, I won't do so.
> 
> However, I do question the credibility of anyone who cites 
> Cheech and Chong
> to back up his position.
> 
> S
> 
> Stephen Sprunk         "God does not play dice."  --Albert Einstein
> CCIE #3723         "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
> K5SSS        dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "todd glassey" <todd.glassey at worldnet.att.net>
> To: "Stephen Sprunk" <stephen at sprunk.org>; "Michael Loftis"
> <mloftis at wgops.com>; "Robert A. Hayden" <rhayden at geek.net>
> Cc: "North American Noise and Off-topic Gripes" <nanog at merit.edu>
> Sent: Monday, 31 March, 2003 17:07
> Subject: RE: State Super-DMCA Too True
> 
> 
> > Stephen -  my responses in caps -
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-nanog at merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog at merit.edu]On
> > Behalf Of
> > Stephen Sprunk
> > Sent: Monday, March 31, 2003 2:32 PM
> > To: todd glassey; Michael Loftis; Robert A. Hayden
> > Cc: North American Noise and Off-topic Gripes
> > Subject: Re: State Super-DMCA Too True
> >
> >
> >
> > Thus spake "todd glassey" <todd.glassey at worldnet.att.net>
> > > Yes but this is specific to the argument on whether an ISP
> > > should be accountable for what people do with its
> > bandwidth
> > > and what I think is ultimately going to happen is that
> > these
> > > laws are going to be put in place and as part of enforcing
> > > these there will be some arrests.
> >
> > If you ship pot via FedEx, does the delivery guy go to jail
> > too?
> >
> > THIS IS A REALLY BAD EXAMPLE - IF YOU WANT I WILL GIVE YOU
> > THE ADDRESSES OF HALF A DOZEN MEDICAL MARIJUANA DISTRIBUTORS
> > IN SAN FRANCISCO AND OAKLAND, AND THEY CAN ANSWER THAT ONE -
> > I THINK HERE IN CALIFORNIA, IF YOU ARE IN A CITY THAT DOES
> > NOT PROSECUTE THE MEDICINAL USE OF MARIJUANA - THEN NO ONE
> > GOES TO JAIL FOR SHIPPING IT.
> >
> >  No.
> > If you make obscene phone calls, does the operator go to
> > jail too?
> >
> > DEPENDS ON WHETHER THEY DIALED THE PHONE FOR YOU.
> >
> > No.
> >
> > BUT IF YOUR AGENT OPENS THE PACKAGE TO INSURE THAT IT HAD A
> > CORRECT ADDRESS ON IT AND FINDS IT CONTAINS CONTRABAND -
> > THEN ARE THEY RESPONSIBLE? - BETTER YET - IF THEY OPENED THE
> > PACKAGE TO INSPECT THE DELIVERY ADDRESS AND THEN REFUSED TO
> > APPLY ANY DILIGENCE ON THE PACKAGES PAYLOAD OR OTHER ADDRESS
> > DATA BEYOND THAT OF A LOCAL DELIVERY ADDRESS,  MY TAKE IS
> > THAT THIS IS WHY THERE WILL BE SO MANY ADMIN'S IN JAIL IN
> > THE COMING YEAR OR TWO - WITH THEIR ATTITUDES, THEY MAY
> > OUT-NUMBER THE DRUNK DRIVERS IN CALIFORNIA PRISONS SOON.
> >
> > ANYWAY - THE OPENING OF THE MAIL TO DO ANYTHING INCLUDING
> > DELIVER IT OBLIGATES YOU TO MAKE SURE THAT ANY AND ALL THE
> > DATA REPRESENTED IN THE HEADER IS REAL AS WELL. IF YOU PARSE
> > THE RFC822 DATA TO PROCESS IT THEM PROCESS IT. THAT'S THE
> > POINT AND THAT THIS IS NOT AN OPTION UNDER THESE LAWS - ITS
> > JUST THAT TO DATE THE TIER-2/3 ISP'S HAVE NEVER BEFORE BEEN
> > THREATENED WITH JAIL FOR NOT GOING THE WHOLE ROUTE...
> >
> > Common carrier status exists for this very reason.
> >
> > I WOULD ARGUE THAT THE ISP'S ARE BY DEFINITION NOT COMMON
> > CARRIERS. ONLY THE TIER-1 PROVIDERS WOULD BE CLASSIFIED AS
> > CC'S UNDER INTERNET DEFINITIONS, AND ANYONE THAT OPERATES
> > MORE THAN ONE TIER-1 SERVICE, AS IN A TIER-2 OR TIER-3
> > OPERATION TOO, HAS A LARGER ISSUE THAT ALL OF THEIR
> > INFRASTRUCTURE LIKELY HAS TO COMPLY -
> >
> > Unfortunately, it
> > probably means we'll have to stop filtering things like spam
> > and DoS, since
> > filtering on content inherently violates common carrier
> > protection --
> >
> > NO - QUITE THE OPPOSITE - ACTUALLY WHAT IT MEANS IS THAT FOR
> > ANY SERVICE FOR WHICH YOU ARE THE ORIGINATING OR TERMINATION
> > ENTITY, THAT "THE DATA REPRESENTED IN ANYTHING YOU PROCESS
> > MUST BE RELIABLE AND TRUE". THAT MEANS IF YOU ACCEPT EMAIL
> > FROM SOMEWHERE AND PROFFER IT ONWARD TO YOUR CLIENT'S, AND
> > YOU DON'T BOTHER TO FILTER AND PROOF IT - THAT YOU STAND A
> > GOOD CHANCE TO "GET YOUR PEE-PEE WHACKED BY THE BAILIFF" -
> > TO QUOTE FROM CHEECH AND CHONG.
> >
> > see
> > the smut suit against AOL a few years ago.
> >
> > I KNOW -  I WAS AN EXPERT WITNESS IN ONE OF THEM. I ALSO AM
> > THE INDUSTRY LIAISON TO THE AMERICAN BAR ASSOCIATION'S
> > INFORMATION SECURITY COMMITTEE, BUT I AM NOT AN ATTORNEY SO
> > IGNORE THIS IF YOU WANT.
> >
> > S
> >
> > Stephen Sprunk         "God does not play dice."  --Albert
> > Einstein
> > CCIE #3723         "God is an inveterate gambler, and He
> > throws the
> > K5SSS        dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen
> > Hawking
> >
> 
> 
> 




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