scott at wworks.net
Sun Apr 27 21:13:36 UTC 2003
You know, Iron Chef references making it in to routing discussion, what a
great world we live in!
----- Original Message -----
From: <alex at yuriev.com>
To: "Stephen Sprunk" <stephen at sprunk.org>
Cc: "North American Noise and Off-topic Gripes" <nanog at merit.edu>
Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 1:59 PM
Subject: Re: Selfish routing
> > >
> > > Make optimal path have more capacity.
> > If your lead time for ordering circuits is <1 day and your cost for
> > bandwidth is zero, that's certainly a viable strategy. Most of us, even
> > facilities-based carriers, don't live in that dreamland.
> No, it takes me 60 days to get approval to order a circuit which wont be
> delivered for another 90 days, and somehow I have no problem with it
> consulting for non-facilities based carriers.
> The reason for the problem is that there are people at the facilities
> carriers that have no interest in saving the money and making their
> more flexible, largely due to constant hand-greasing from the sales people
> those who are selling them equipment to make marginal improvements in
> very broken networks.
> No backbone ever should have congestion inside itself, and no backbone
> gets to control someone else's network. This is the fundamentals of the
> business case at hand, which cannot and should not be redefined. So figure
> out how to
> (a) not have congestion inside the backbone itself
> (b) not have congestion on the interconnects
> > Please distinguish between startups desperately marketing OSPF under a
> > trademark, and tier 1 carriers who use _significantly different_ routing
> > strategies and won't even acknowledge it without an NDA.
> The problem with tier-1 carriers is that their networks are a mess since
> many of them have too many buyers that get too much gooey stuff stuck to
> their hands for buying overpriced and wrong gear and services.
> > A carrier can't exercise fine-grained control over what traffic levels
> > their peers/customers/upstreams send them, but it is possible to react
> > real-time to varying traffic levels and prevent congestion (within your
> > own network) from flash crowds, link outages, peer flaps, etc.
> Business case requirement (a) - your internal outages should not cause
> backbone links to overflow, especially if you claim to be a tier-1
> If it does, you do not have (a) requirement met, so solving any other
> is a waste of time.
> > Capcity, even in our current bandwidth glut, is expensive. If you can
> > maintain the same performance level with less capacity, you keep more
> > profits at the end of the day -- and that's the real goal, not design
> > purity.
> Rubbish again.
> Capacity (both longhaul and short haul) and bandwidth is cheap for the
> companies. However, if the buyers actually push sellers, the sellers won't
> have a reason to take buyers to Morrimotto's, give them Louis Vuitton
> handbags and give them SuperBowl tickets.
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