Trying to find a connectivity provider that wont go under (was RE: CAIS/Ardent and now Network Access Solutions)

Fri May 31 10:56:59 UTC 2002

> As far as I know, the following national providers exist in Detroit:
> (This is by no means, a complete list, and some of these aren't "Big
> Name" providers, but less likely to go under than John Q Random ISP)
The above is completely false statement in my opinion. From what I'v 
seen, local "John Q  Random ISP" is a lot more likely to be stable, have 
good support and less likely NOT TO go under then most of the "Big Name" 
providers you listed (see comments).

> Verio
Dubious financial situation, although after restructuring and closing of 
many offices & datacenters, they're getting better. Their network however 
is fairly bad compared to majority of other national ip providers.

> Winstar
No longer in business.

> XO
Very very serious financial problems. Problems with their network as well.

> AT&T
Fairly stable due to the fact they do not have large bonds/loans as they 
used to have lots of money when they were giant monopoly long distance. 
But they continue to loose share of long-distance market and although they 
bought former Northpoint network, they do not seem to be using it yet (???).
Nobody is sure what their future business plans are regarding internet 
or anything else... 

> Qwest
Serious financial problems. Customer service needs much improvement...

> Covad
Out of bankrupcy but not yet stable. They buy majority of their intenet 
transit from Level3 and do not really have national ip network.

> Level 3
Stopped selling directly to small customers. You have to buy OC3 or 
above or at least 100Mb and even that is not enough for them to take you 
seriously (Note: known to still sell DS3 if you push them, but no longer 
T1s).

> SBC
Big bad wolf ILEC :) Probably most stable of the list you have. Most 
expensive too. I personally avoid doing business with SBC because of how 
anticompetetive and anti-ISP they are.

> I've heard rumors of speakeasy.net, which I think resells internap
Primarily DSL ISP. I'v heard bad things about how they tricked resellers...
Check on dslreports on opinions about their service.

> I'm sure there's a few other national networks, these are just the ones
> I have heard of off the top of my head.
Of course, there are other networks - Worldcom/UUNET, Sprint, CWUSA, etc

But if I were you, I'd to yellow pages for list of ISPs or the some other 
list of local isps (their used to be ones from boardwatch, thelist.com, 
etc; check only for the ones that actually have office in your area) and 
check with them if they can provide you with T1.

P.S. I'm only expressing my personal opinion about companies above, I do 
not wish to initiate any kind of discussion with others on the list that 
may work for these companies or would otherwise have different view on this.

> -Paul
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, 2002-05-30 at 19:27, Brian wrote:
> > 
> > Surprised there isnt much connectivity in the Detroit area, I mean it is
> > Motor City and all, I would think tons of manufacturing palnts all needing
> > telecom of some sort or other..
> > 
> > 	Bri
> > 
> > On Thu, 30 May 2002, Deepak Jain wrote:
> > 
> > >
> > >
> > > Clearly anyone in your market is buying from someone outside of your market.
> > > The fees associated with reliability (if available) are a function of your
> > > geography. Large providers are concentrating on the markets that are making
> > > them the most money.
> > >
> > > If you get a few networks in your area that want to save money on the cost
> > > of reliability you can run a couple of circuits to the next large market and
> > > try to knit together a reliable network and divide the costs that way.
> > >
> > > My guess is that with more large providers on a profit-centered basis you
> > > won't see the same kind of pricing equality you have been seeing between
> > > Tier 1 and Tier N markets anymore.
> > >
> > > Deepak Jain
> > > AiNET
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: owner-nanog at merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog at merit.edu]On Behalf Of
> > > John Palmer
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 5:39 PM
> > > To: nanog at nanog.org
> > > Subject: RE: Trying to find a connectivity provider that wont go under
> > > (was RE: CAIS/Ardent and now Network Access Solutions)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Its just that they aren't local and there is no need to pay for
> > > a circuit all the way to Chicago. It seems that so many providers
> > > have moved out of Macomb county. Anyone have any experience with
> > > BigNet? We are talking to them now
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Bill Woodcock [mailto:woody at zocalo.net]
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 4:42 PM
> > > To: John Palmer
> > > Cc: nanog at nanog.org
> > > Subject: Re: Trying to find a connectivity provider that wont go under
> > > (was RE: CAIS/Ardent and now Network Access Solutions)
> > >
> > >
> > >     > Who can one rely on for connectivity? In general and in the Detroit
> > > area?
> > >     > I put out a request for bids on T-1's and all the national providers
> > > were
> > >     > way too high...
> > >
> > > Haven't you just answered your own question?  I guess if you think
> > > reliable service is too expensive, you're not in the market for reliable
> > > service, no?
> > >
> > >                                 -Bill
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > 