Yes it's off topic but who cares right now.

Thu Sep 13 13:55:26 UTC 2001

At 08:28 13/09/01 -0400, Randy Bush wrote:

You missed the point.  I am not arguing with what you say, but rather the 
equation of misusing the word martyr for:

a) a person killed by their enemy for their religious beliefs - either by 
crucification, fire, beheading, etc. - is the definition of a martyr - 
meaning someone *being* killed by someone else

b) a person *killing* people in a suicide mission.

There is a huge difference between *being killed* and *killing* 
people.  One is the victim and one is the attacker.  Nothing to do with 
religion.  Someone being killed for their religious beliefs is a 
marytr.  Someone killing people for their religious beliefs via his act of 
suicide is perhaps a shahid but is definitely *not* a martyr.

-Hank

> > For those with a Christian background, don't you consider it an insult to
> > your religion to have a suicide bomber called a martyr after Saint
> > Stephen?
>
>no, i consider it a consequence of the self-righteousness that religion
>often nurtures, i am better than you because my god is better than yours.
>add fanaticism, and there will always be fanatics of every stripe, and you
>get the escalating cycle of violence and hate.
>
>resist the cycle of violence and hate.
>
>randy