Fwd: Re: Digital Island sponsors DoS attempt?

Mon Oct 29 00:14:40 UTC 2001

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> > > That way lies madness.  Senders have no such rights, and the
> > > determination of a message's legitimacy lies with recipients (and
> > > perhaps infrastructure owners) NOT senders.
> >
> > How is the recipient of a message that has been blocked before
> he sees it to
> > decide whether it was legitimate?
>
> Why would you care, unless you are the receiver?

Funny you should ask, since that's exactly my point.  The ISP running the
mail server is not the recipient.  The customer to whom the message was
addressed is the recipient.  So with that in mind, I re-state my question:

How is the recipient of a message that has been blocked before he sees it to
decide whether it was legitimate?

> If I decide
> that all ICMP
> traffic from IP addresses that have an odd number of "1" bits in it is not
> legitimate and shall not be allowed to reach my web server, then
> that seems
> to be a matter between me and my psychotherapist.  I'm not sure
> why it would
> matter to anyone else, including rebuffed senders or NANOG's philosophers.

Why do you keep changing the subject?  This is about email and spam, and
whether the recipient or sender has the right to determine what is a
legitimate communication.  You alleged that it was the recipient.  I
countered that the recipient cannot determine legitimacy if he cannot see
the
message.

> What this all begs for is a reference standard for "presumed
> legitimacy" so

No, it begs for the ISP to just deliver the mail that was addressed to the
recipient and stop making up stories about ICMP packets with odd numbers of
1
bits to justify why his support department is so understaffed.

I know what MAPS is about, it is about reducing support costs by reducing
customer complaints of spam.  This is why collateral damage is untroubling
to
the MAPS boosters.  Collateral damage does little to increase support costs.
Educating users how to filter their own mail costs more money.  Bottom line.
Note that I did not say this was good or bad, the world revolves around
money, and this is no different.  I just wish MAPS boosters would be honest.
It would move the debate along more quickly to a productive conclusion.

- ---
"The avalanche has already begun.  It is too late for the pebbles to vote" -
Kosh

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