Mitch Halmu mitch at
Sat May 26 23:23:16 UTC 2001

On Sat, 26 May 2001, John Fraizer wrote:

> On Sat, 26 May 2001, Mitch Halmu wrote:
> > On Sat, 26 May 2001, Adam Rothschild wrote:
> > 
> > > If you don't want to get listed in the ORBS, don't run an open relay,
> > > or prevent them from scanning you.  If this is too difficult too
> > > implement, or the negative impact on your business resulting from
> > > commonly-accepted responsible operational practices is too severe,
> > > then you can deal with the consequences of being blackholed by ORBS
> > > subscribers.  Your choice.
> > > 
> > > -adam
> > > 
> > 
> > Any North American Network Operator (NANO_) that entrusts control of
> > their networks' communications to a foreign third party is a fool.
> > ORBS is run by one Alan Brown based in New Zealand. IMHO, he's a 
> > cyberterrorist.
> > 
> > Being blackholed by New Zealanders should be an insignificant threat
> > to US-based networks. If it starts being a noticeable problem, you 
> > have a serious national security breach.
> > 
> > --Mitch
> > NetSide
> > 
> Mitch,
> I'm not a huge fan of ORBS.  We don't use it.  This is based on the fact
> that we don't like their tactics.  I do make use of MAPS however.  That
> said, the fact that someone is using either service and perhaps your email
> doesn't go through has absolutely NOTHING to do with national
> security.  It has everything to do with YOUR security.  If your MTA is
> closed to SPAM problems and you and your customers don't SPAM, you have no
> problems.  If you refuse to secure your MTA, that's YOUR problem and many
> of us have taken steps to prevent YOUR problem from becoming OUR problem.
> ---
> John Fraizer
> EnterZone, Inc

Did I happen to mention MAPS in my post? I didn't. The argument was made
for ORBS, or any FOREIGN entity that blocks North American networks.
ORBS fans in this country will have lots of explaining to do and hell to 
pay if any foreign entity exploits this weakness to attack US interests
in an international incident.

Our position on MAPS is described clearly at
I don't want to start a debate on MAPS and be accused of OT trolling.


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