Stealth Blocking

Paul Vixie vixie at
Wed May 23 18:35:38 UTC 2001

Valdis.Kletnieks at writes:

> This is *so* bass-ackwards it isn't funny.

You want facts, yet you read NANOG?  To call what's been posted to this
thread "wildly inaccurate" would give it far more credit than it has earned.
(Not picking on Valdis in particular, he and I are on the same side after all.)

> Open relays were the norm until people realized that they were getting
> abused.  The clueful were already closing their relays back then.  Vixie
> started providing the MAPS service because clueful people wanted to protect
> themselves against idiots.

The list that netside found itself listed on was MAPS RSS, which was
originally created by Al Iverson under the name RRSS.  MAPS gave it,
and then later Al himself, a new home.  Vixie (that's me) was never
personally involved -- MAPS is a limited liability company founded by
Vixie (me again) and Dave Rand.

> Incidentally, I'm pretty sure that both ORBS and the now-defunct
> DorkSlayers databases actually pre-date the MAPS project.

ORBS is the name Alan Brown switched to when I complained that calling his
project the DorkSlayers RBL was leading a lot of people to send hate mail
to MAPS (the original "RBL") about sites that were actually on Alan's list.

> So obviously there was a demand for the service before Vixie started it up.

Vixie (me, still) started the RBL as an independent project shortly before
MAPS was cofounded by Vixie (hi!) and Rand.  RRSS was created independently
by Al Iverson at about the same time as Alan Brown started DorkSlayers.  RRSS
became the MAPS RSS some time afterward.

> And as was already pointed out, spam-l and are
> probably more appropriate fora  for this discussion...

Right.  On the other hand I don't read those since I'm not a day to day part
of MAPS or indeed of the anti-spam community.  Dave Rand is MAPS's executive
director now (following his resignation from MFN/Abovenet a while back) and
while he reads the spam fora I don't think he's on NANOG any more.  Comments
about the MAPS RSS, or indeed anything else about MAPS, should most likely be
sent to him (dlr at if you want to be sure he reads them.

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