DDoS attacks

Brad brad at americanisp.net
Thu Jul 12 07:58:35 UTC 2001

On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, John Fraizer wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Jul 2001, Timothy Brown wrote:

[ snip ]

> > It is as real a service provided on the Internet as the Web or anonymous
> > FTP sites.
> OK.  If you say so.  (Bwahahahahah!)

I might want to mention that there are many people on this
list who are affected by DDoS attacks on a daily/weekly
basis- and who do not have any IRC servers on their
networks.  DDoS is serious and is certainly not going to
just magically go away with IRC.

> >  DDoS attacks affect us all - and his call for assistance reflects the
> > danger to the providers of IRC servers as much as anything else.
> Hrm.  The last time I checked, running through S. Central LA screaming
> racist slogans would summon the attention of people who wanted to attack
> you.  When you do it, and get attacked, I don't know very many people who
> would feel even the slightest bit sorry for you.
> Running an IRCd is not any better.  It's BEGGING to be attacked.  I don't
> feel the slightest bit sorry for you.

You really should.  IRC servers are not the only targets in
DDoS attacks, and more attacks will continue to be launched
to *all* areas of the internet community in the near future.

> Again, I don't condone the attacks in either case.  I do understand the
> cause and effect relationship though.

Your logic could also conclude - if you dont want your
website to get attacked by a DDoS, then you have no business
having a presence on the internet to begin with.

> > If you do not define EFNet as critical, that is one thing.  But the attacks
> > on one IRC network could grow to encompass any other IRC network, or any other
> > service on the Internet.
> I don't define *ANY* IRC network as critical.

That is not the point.

> > I'm reiterating the obvious here, since you do not seem to possess
> > enough clue to get it yourself.  The times, they are a'changin'.
> You're funny.
> > You cannot simply ignore DDoS attacks based on the fact they are targeting
> > EFNet.    Attacks on EFNet (and any other Internet service of similar ilk)
> > are attacks, by extension, on the providers of Internet service at large
> > and of the very business model we attempt to make money on (some of us are
> > succeeding) - people want services that you do not offer, so they use you to
> > get there, but they will still call you if they do not work.
> I have NEVER gotten a SINGLE complaint from a SINGLE lUSER who couldn't
> get to an IRC network.  I don't anticipate it happening any time soon.

Everyone has a different customer-base.  My users go
crazy when they can not connect to IRC servers..  And if
there is anything I can do to help eliminate DDoS attacks
from spreading like wildfire, I am all willing.  Just
because you may not have much experience with being
victimized and/or being a colo provider when DDoS's randomly
take out segments of your network, does not mean you should
discredit others' posts reguarding this serious network
operator's issue.  Doing so just makes having lists like
this useless to those who would like them to become somewhat

> John Fraizer

Brad Baker
Director: Network Operations
American ISP
brad at americanisp.net
+1 303 984 5700 x12

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