Training the next generation:

Dana Hudes dhudes at
Tue Aug 24 15:15:59 UTC 1999

thanks for the input.
Comer has a volume 3 that uses Winsock instead of BSD sockets.
Stevens UNIX network programming 3rd edition added XTI, I don't know why.
Market -- always a problem to have a pool of eligible students but its a hot topic.
A co-requisite of our Operating Systems course, which is required, isn't too limiting
-- gives a pool of about 60 students (the 30 taking the fall, the 30 taking the spring; not too many
who took it last spring will be around next spring). I can't take more than 30, would rather have 20.
Hunter is big on C++ but I found out that they don't teach methodology despite calling the courses software engineering.
Its really the same course as it was when they used Pascal, only now they use C++.
If I get up in front of class and start drawing use-case diagrams, nobody will know what I'm talking about.
so much for a class-wide project in the large.

I'm going for the Comer vol. 1 course, plus sockets.

Thanks again,

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jeff Parker <jparker at>
To: Dana Hudes <dhudes at>
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 1999 9:47 AM
Subject: RE: Training the next generation: 

> Dana -
> I teach a course here at the Harvard Extension school
> similar in aims to your 2nd course here.  I've been using
> Steven's Unix Network Programming plus lecture notes that cover
> some of the Internet Protocols (ARP, BootP, ... RPC, NFS, AFS, ...)
> I don't cover much about TCP - other than a lecture that
> includes MTU discovery and Slow Start.  Some of this is that our
> first semester course covers sliding window, etc.  However, ours
> is a very market-driven course (that is, I don't have a natural market,
> so I can't scare folks off with prereqs) I cannot assume too much.
> Lately, I've been finding that our students don't know 
> enough about Unix and Unix System Programming to deal with Stevens:
> I've switch the language from C to Java, and I'm using a Java
> text to teach sockets programming, as well as using Stevens
> TCP/IP Illustrated to teach the protocols.  
> The project has always been a client/server system: we
> start with a simple name server with 3 operations: Insert, 
> Delete, and GetNext, and deal with issues such as packet loss
> (I give them a "flakey sendto" that drops 2 packets out of 5,
> and introduces duplicate packets) and transactions (to deal
> with a "rename" (delete and insert) encountering a getNet walk.
> Depending upon the background, the setup (how does their
> bridge send/rcv packets, what they have to observe traffic - sniffer?) 
> I would think that your bridge assignment would be challenging.  
> I'd be interested to chat about your course: here is a link
> to last semester's website.  
> - jeff parker
> > 2. Network application programming. Java clients, Perl and 
> > Apache server side (or perhaps Java servlets).  Hunter 
> > students know C++ fairly well by their senior year; Java is 
> > an easy transition. The entire class would divide into teams 
> > with assignments that comprise various parts of the client 
> > and server portions.  The project would be a turn-based 
> > simulation game (I used to play these and have a number of 
> > appropriate games with play-by-mail options, game rule design 
> > and/or game theory is not part of the course).  While this 
> > won't teach them to be router engineers -- or developers, it 
> > should have some industry relevance.
> > 
> > 
> > Most Hunter graduates stay in the Greater NYC metropolitan 
> > area. Given this, which of these options is better for the 
> > industry? who is in shorter supply?
> > 
> > Prompt feedback greatly appreciated. Registrar is asking for 
> > the course description ASAP or sooner.
> > 
> > Thanks!
> > Dana Hudes
> > CUNY Hunter Computer Science
> > former ISP
> > 

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