"Engineer" (Was: Tech contact for Qwest?)

Alex P. Rudnev alex at Relcom.EU.net
Mon Aug 23 16:43:14 UTC 1999

It seems you are going out of trhe real problem's roots. 

Let's image someone is a real _network engeneer_, who can understand the 
problem (in the big backbone such as UUnet's or QWEST or simular IP 
backbone), and solve it. Do you think such engeneer would be interested 
in working as the _support boy_?

I think - no. He'll found more interesting work, because he want to learn 
every day, to build something new, etc - he want to grow up as an 

But if I image something strange and this young man will be hired as a 
_support engeneer_ - he have only 2 choices for the career. First is if 
he show himself as a bright engeneer solving any problems and able to 
understand the reasons of any complex failure - he'll run to Cisco and 
got CCIE diploma, than he'll find some more interesting work (even in the 
same company). In the best case he'll work as a _seniour network 
engeneer_ serving VIP customers, not more.

Or he'll work as a _support engeneer_ for a few years - and loss the 
ability to investigate the really complex (and rare) failures and 

There is the real problem for the ISP - you (ISP) need high skilled 
persons to understand the complex situations appeared once/year, but 
could not provide an interesting work and high salary to satisfy their 
professional (and career's) interests. It cause the every company to have 
2 - 3 of the such people maximum. In the small company, the customers 
have a chance to contact them directly in case of high energency, in the 
big TELCO - no any chance at all. Just what we see here - if you get IP 
service from the huge international company, you got good service in case 
of the standard situations but could not resolve any nonstandard; if 
you'v got the service from the middle-size European company, you waste 
some time when you need every-days service, but you can easy contact 
high-skilled personal in case of emergency (I do not want to name here 
the companies we have experience with, but this example was picked up 
from the real life). 

I do not know if there is the real problem with the _where to found well 
skilled network ENGENEER's_ at all - may be it exists, may be not, in 
USA; but even if I found such engeneer (and if I was the ISP's CEO here) 
I face some other problem - how to pay him the salary and (!) the 
interesting job (because the interesting job is the kind of salary for 
the such people too - at least because it allow to learn more and promise 
the better carreer).

On Mon, 23 Aug 1999, Stephen Sprunk wrote:

> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 11:24:36 -0500
> From: Stephen Sprunk <ssprunk at cisco.com>
> To: "J.D. Falk" <jdfalk at cybernothing.org>
> Cc: nanog at merit.edu
> Subject: Re: "Engineer" (Was: Tech contact for Qwest?)
> I think that most of us act as ethically as management permits.  There's a
> reason why vendors bring an "engineer" along on sales calls; customers have
> a very solid understanding that nobody else (sales, marketing, etc) can be
> trusted.  That's not to say every "engineer" is without ulterior motives,
> but they're virtually guaranteed to be the most ethical people you'll meet
> at any company.
> What happens when a civil engineer refuses to certify a bridge is safe?
> What happens when a network engineer refuses to certify a network will work?
> Why is there a difference, and what can we do about it?
> Stephen "Engineer" Sprunk
> Stephen Sprunk, K5SSS, CCIE#3723
> Network Consulting Engineer
> Cisco NSA   Dallas, Texas, USA
> e-mail:ssprunk at cisco.com
> Pager: +1 800 365-4578
> Empowering the Internet Generation
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: J.D. Falk
> To: Vadim Antonov
> Cc: david at brouda.com ; nanog at merit.edu
> Sent: Monday, August 23, 1999 10:48
> Subject: Re: "Engineer" (Was: Tech contact for Qwest?)
> On 08/22/99, Vadim Antonov <avg at kotovnik.com> wrote:
> >
> > David Brouda <david at brouda.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Now, I have mentioned three key words: engineer, professional, and
> ethics.
> > > As a student of engineering, I believe that these three words go
> > > hand-in-hand.
> >
> > The facts that somebody is being professional, educated and ethical does
> not
> > guarantee that he has any idea of what he is doing.  The catch is that a
> > clueless person is generally unware that he's clueless, so he can be quite
> > eithcal and professional in what he thinks he is doing. Watch the hordes
> > of ATM zealots - many of them with very impressive credentials.  Does not
> > make their "contribution" any more worthwhile.
> Yeah, but at least they have a code of ethics.  Where'd ours
> go?
>  ---------========== J.D. Falk <jdfalk at cybernothing.org> =========---------
>   |            OKINA MAKETSU IPPAI NO UISUKI, ONEGAI SHIMASU!            |
>  ----========== http://www.cybernothing.org/jdfalk/home.html ==========----

Aleksei Roudnev, Network Operations Center, Relcom, Moscow
(+7 095) 194-19-95 (Network Operations Center Hot Line),(+7 095) 230-41-41, N 13729 (pager)
(+7 095) 196-72-12 (Support), (+7 095) 194-33-28 (Fax)

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