Fwd: Re: $110,000 for Gated Source Code

Mon Jun 8 05:00:45 UTC 1998

So far, I've had a large number of questions about a statement I made here
in NANOG. The statement was made in passing, while I was looking for
sources for something that would run BGP4 and allow us to transition from
static single-homing to dynamic multi-homing. Rather than answer, yet many
more inquiries, I am posting the answer here in NANOG, to fore-stall
further such inquiries.

MHSC prefers open-source whenever we can get it and prefer to run
reference-standard code. This is why we run sendmail v8.8.8, qpopper, BIND,
and others. We are a Caldera VAR and our servers are built up from Caldera
Open Linux Standard edition, with about 30 add-ons <groan>. We *do* have
BRU, Netscape, and other commercial binaries that have been bought, but not
before attempting to find acceptable reference-standards. We have also
provided DewPoint/Caldera with input towards an Enterprise Server
distribution for Linux.

Anyway, we've applied for an ASN and ran into the BGP4 requirement. Ergo,
we were looking for the reference-standard BGP4 implementation, which is
GateD. We (I) was *very* surprised at the attitude exhibited at
<http://www.gated.org>. Very much anti-commercial. But, that does not
matter to me as I have $other$ things to worry about (Paying the rent
around here is one of them <sigh>). Ergo, having run *that* trail to
ground, I posted a query here in NANOG, that Dean Anderson, Shane Wright,
Craig Labovit, and others have answered.

I now have gated v3.5.9, for Linux, and am building it now. I'll probably
run into trouble, as I do with most things that don't have a configure
script, or have an otherwise non-standard build process (Why is it that
*only* the academic originated stuff is such a PITA? <sigh>).

Back to the point, we are a commercial technology R&D house that is also
bringing up an ISP (MHSC.NET). As such, since we actually have a
gawd-awful-scummy profit motive (why else form a corporation?), we do not
qualify for Academic membership in the Gated Consortium. The prices that I
quote here are for the level of membership which MHSC would have to sign-up
for in order to obtain what we really need. There are lower-orders of
membership, but if you look at the URLs you'll find that the minimum is
$10s of K-bucks$ for the first year, plus an annual maintentance agreement
of, at least, half of the first year premium (and we thought we had
profit-at-heart). Being a startup, we don't need such expense (it comes out
of *my* pocket, personally, and I ain't that rich).

Again, this is not a rant at the gated folks. I frankly wasn't much
surprised. I thank all those who helped me obtain the sources for
gated-3.5.9. BTW, Flemming did comment that since gated was NSF funded, it
may be inappropriate for such fees to be charged. In reallity, the message
clearly states that "start-ups need not apply". They just want to keep out
the riff-raff. I've long-ago quit getting emotional about these things and
have come to expect it from acadamia-types. 

The URL is ;
>The latest public release of gated is 3.5.9 and is available at:
>
>ftp://gated.merit.edu/net-research/gated/gated-3-5-9.tar.gz  
>
>Lots of information regarding licenses, bug reports, and releases can be
>found at http://www.gated.org/
>
>
>Cheers,
>Shane

Thank you, Shane.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------
>Date: Sun, 07 Jun 1998 20:08:54 -0700
>To: Jim Fleming <JimFleming at unety.net>
>From: "Roeland M.J. Meyer" <rmeyer at mhsc.com>
>Subject: Re: $110,000 for Source Code
>
>At 09:46 PM 6/7/98 -0500, Jim Fleming wrote:
>>
>>Roeland,
>>
>>I noticed your comment on NANOG about $110,000
>>for souce code. I must say, I was confused. What did
>>that cover ?

>>
>>Who is that paid to ?
>
>As an answer, I'll quote a message I wrote to someone else about this same
issue.
>
>>At 08:24 PM 6/7/98 -0400, Dean Anderson wrote:
>>>>Where can I get latest and which is the latest. I prefer open-source but
>>>>I'll take binary-only if I don't have to cough-up the $110KUS for it.
GAWD,
>>>>what a rip-off!
>>>
>>>I'm curious, did someone actually claim to sell bgp4 for linux for 110K? If
>>>so, I'd like to know who...
>>>
>>>		--Dean
>>
>>
>>
>>From
<http://www.gated.org/new_web/code/doc/code_info/product/intro.html#Source
Code>
>>
>>>Source Code
>>>
>>>The GateD source code, tools and documentation are based on three
different product lines: GateD
>>>Unicast, GateD Multicast, and GateD IPv6. Each of the products has its
own software base, release
>>>dates, and product descriptions. 
>>>
>>>New GateD Source code, tools and internal documentation are available to
GateD members only .
>>>Binaries for utilities or on-line documentation are available for
anonymous ftp or via the web. 
>>>
>>>Members of the Academic and Research community can join the Merit GateD
Consortium by simply
>>>filling out a GateD Academic and Research membership. This membership
requires that the member: 
>>>
>>>    sign the GateD Membership, 
>>>    register the machines to which GateD source code and/or binaries
will be distributed, and, 
>>>    agree to return any enhancements to the project for redistribution. 
>>>
>>
>>and as regards the price see
<http://www.gated.org/new_web/consort/member_info/prospects/howto.html>
>>
>>>Across-Product Line Memberships
>>>
>>>  Gold Membership
>>>
>>>    Existing members of two product lines may elect the Gold membership
for $45,000. 
>>>    Existing members of one product line may select Gold membership for
$75,000. 
>>>    The fee for new members is $110,000. 
>>>
>>>    Gold Members have the top level access to GateD sources and to the
developers. Internships are
>>>    available for technical staff members from Gold members. Gold
members are helping bring new
>>>    protocols and services to GateD. Gold members may redistribute GateD
binaries for two product
>>>    lines in commercial products for the duration of the GateD
membership. GateD source code for
>>>    these two product lines may be distributed to development teams at
the Member's corporate
>>>    offices or research sites. Source code may not be distributed in
commercial products. 
>>>
>>>    Gold members may send 4 voting members to the GateD Consortium
meetings. 
>>>
>>
>>I say again, "GWAD, what a rip-off!"

_________________________________________________ 
Morgan Hill Software Company, Inc. 
Roeland M.J. Meyer, ISOC 
(RM993) 
President and CEO. 
e-mail:        <mailto:rmeyer at mhsc.com>mailto:rmeyer at mhsc.com 
Web-pages:    <http://www.mhsc.com/~rmeyer>http://www.mhsc.com/~rmeyer 
Web-site:        <http://www.mhsc.com>http://www.mhsc.com 
Colorado Springs, CO - Livermore, CA - Morgan Hill, CA 
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