AGIS Signing up New Spammers

Mon Nov 17 23:44:41 UTC 1997

On Mon, Nov 17, 1997 at 03:23:43PM -0800, Vadim Antonov wrote:
> Karl Denninger wrote:
>  
> > HOWEVER, the "alt.binaries.warez" groups, and more particularly, the groups
> > used *primarily* to distribute kiddie porn are another matter.  Nobody with
> > half a neuron firing in their head is going to be able to make an argument
> > in a courtroom that the group "alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc.windows" isn't a
> > group designed and operated for the purpose of distributing stolen software.
> > 
> > Or try "alt.binaries.pictures.teen-fuck".  Tell me THAT's not obvious on
> > its face.
> 
> That was beaten to death many years ago.  Nobody with a half neuron will
> argue for filtering or removal of those newsgroups on a large scale
> (now,
> i contend that a teeny weeny ISP can get away with it, but for large
> ISPs
> it just doesn't work).  The reason is very simple: the objectionable
> content
> will simply move to "legitimate" newsgroups.  There is no way to prevent
> it.
> Which would make it much harder for those who don't want to see it to
> filter
> it out.  How about _encouraging_ such self-regulation instead?
> 
> Now, can we get out of the kiddie porn sandbox?
> 
> --vadim

There is no way to prevent bank robbery.

Therefore, since we cannot prevent it, it should be perfectly legal for me
to sell you a firearm with the full knowledge that you intend to use it for
the purpose of robbing a bank, or that you have previously robbed a bank (and
been convicted of same) and are therefore inclined to do so again.

The problem with your argument, Vadim, is that it doesn't wash under the
legal code of the United States.  It also doesn't wash under the ethical
codes of a whole bunch of people, including me.

You can argue that it is impossible to prevent kiddie porn.  You might 
even be right about that.  But arguing whether you are right or wrong about
whether we can prevent kiddie porn from being produced, and children from
being exploited by any measure short of 24x7 camera monitoring of every
individual in the country is immaterial to THIS issue.

The issue here is simple - what is the *right thing* to do?  Whether you can
save the world by doing the right thing isn't the point, nor should it be.
I can't save the planet by myself, and perhaps none of us can save the
planet.  But that does not mean that I should toss my can out the car
window, simply because others have before me and individually, my can is
immaterial to the problem of roadside waste.

It is, quite simply, WRONG for people to exploit children.  Its wrong to 
knowingly give people a medium by which they can easily congregate to do
this.  

Yes, I know darn well that I can't stop every person who uses our IRC
server, for example, from sending out kiddie porn through it.  I *KNOW*
this, because to do anything else requires that I have the ability to filter
through every piece of content that touches that IP number and port, looking
for the evil material.  Its just not possible.

But if someone comes to me and tells me of a set of people who are using our
system for this purpose, I *ALSO* can't stick my head in the sand in
relation to the issue.

Anyone who thinks that these binary groups are just spam-hauses for
1-900-GET-LAID is incredibly naive.  Those ads don't require 40% of the 
feed.

The *reality* is that trading of stolen and illegal material is rampant in
these *particular* groups.  Its a simple matter of volume; that is ALL you
have to look at in order to figure it out.

We STILL count the number of postings we are asked to file in these groups.

Here's the listing from the last TWO HOURS off the top of those logs:

228 newsgroup alt.binaries.pictures.erotica
193 newsgroup alt.binaries.warez.ibm-pc
189 newsgroup alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.oral
175 newsgroup alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.cartoons
151 newsgroup alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.orientals
150 newsgroup alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.breasts
148 newsgroup alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.amateur
146 newsgroup alt.binaries.pictures.boys
134 newsgroup alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.amateur.female
132 newsgroup alt.binaries.erotica
129 newsgroup alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.female
116 newsgroup alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.panties
115 newsgroup alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.blondes
112 newsgroup alt.binaries.games
108 newsgroup alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.redheads
108 newsgroup alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.female.anal
108 newsgroup alt.binaries.pictures.bisexuals
107 newsgroup alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.pornstar
105 newsgroup alt.binaries.pictures.erotica.pornstars
105 newsgroup alt.binaries.pictures.black.erotic.females
104 newsgroup alt.test.testing
103 newsgroup alt.sex.pictures
102 newsgroup alt.sex.erotica

Any questions?

This is getting off-topic for NANOG - I've said my last on the issue here.

--
-- 
Karl Denninger (karl at MCS.Net)| MCSNet - Serving Chicagoland and Wisconsin
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