Jeff Ogden jogden at
Wed Apr 3 22:20:12 UTC 1996

>From my point of view (from my customers' point of view) the Internet in
the US is failing right now. It hasn't collapsed, but some parts are almost
unusable due to congestion. I think lots of people are working hard to
improve that situation and I do think it will get better over time (and
then it will get worse again and better and ..., just as it has in the
past).  I do think communication about who is doing what, could be better.
I say this as a customer of an NSP (MCI) as well as an NSP manager myself
(MichNet a regional network in Michigan).

So I agree with Bob a lot more than I agree with Jerry or -mo.

  -Jeff Ogden
   Merit/MichNet (the non-RA half of Merit)

At 4:55 PM 4/2/96, Bob Metcalfe wrote:
>Dear Jerry Whomever, (and NANOG)
>Thanks for my first few clues (below) on how the Internet is actually
>really run.
>Note, I have never predicted "the death of the Internet," only catastrophic
>collapse(s) during 1996, which is "a good calibration" of the rest of your
>objections (below).
>Jerry, Jerry, Jerry, the problem is not that the Internet's chief 100
>engineers, whoever they are, fail to report their problems to me, it's that
>they (you?) fail to report them to anybody, including to each other, which
>is half our problem.
>Now, NANOG -- not affiliated with anybody, you say, not even the Internet
>Society.  OK, I stand corrected.  So, if not ISOC, who are IEPG and NANOG?
>Do IEPG and NANOG have anything to do with one another?  By the way, is
>IETF not ISOC too?  See
>Settlements, "wrong on the face?"  Or are you just too busy busy busy
>defensive to argue?
>So, you say, increasing Internet diameters (hops) are only of concern to
>whiners like me?  There are no whiners LIKE me.  I am THE whiner.  And hops
>ARE a first class problem, Jerry, or are you clueless about how
>store-and-forward packet switching actually really works?
>Jerry, if you represent the engineers running the Internet, now I'm really
>Thank you for sharing, stay tuned,
>/Bob Metcalfe, InfoWorld
>>Received: by ccmail from
>>>From jerry at
>>X-Envelope-From: jerry at
>>Received: from by with smtp
>>    (Smail3.1.29.1 #12) id m0u4BbH-000wsjC; Tue, 2 Apr 96 11:18 PST
>>Received: from ( []) by
>> (8.6.8/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA23296 for
>><bob_metcalfe at>; Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:40:40 -0800
>>Message-ID: <316175BF.1E79 at>
>>Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 10:45:19 -0800
>>From: jerry <jerry at>
>>X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01Gold (Win95; I)
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>To: bob_metcalfe at
>>Subject: RE: NANOG
>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>>You might want to note, that NANOG is not any kind of
>>offical function of ISOC, or any other organization.  Merit
>>kindly helps provide resources to create a technical forum
>>where issues are raised, and Network Operators learn
>>about problems and fix them.
>>Just because the chief engineers of the Internet don't report
>>their problems to you, doesn't give you an excuse to go off.
>>I don't think you even have a clue as to WHO, WHAT, or HOW
>>the Internet is run.
>>Your suggestion that traffic based settlements will do
>>much of anything, other that create jobs for bean counters
>>is just plan wrong of the face of it.
>>Oh, and about Nanog, perhaps the reason it doesn't meet
>>more often, is because the top 100 engineers running the
>>net are busy working, so people like you can whine
>>about outages, "increasing diameters", etc.
>>>From todays NANOG List:
>>Date: Mon, 1 Apr 1996 20:08:03 -0500 (EST)
>>To: nanog at
>>Subject: Metcalfe's clue density...
>>Sender: owner-nanog at
>>Precedence: bulk
>>the fact that he attributes the IEPG as an ISOC organization
>>is a good calibration on everything else.
>>just remember:
>>        "Imminent death of net predicted" ::= end of discussion
>>soooo sorry. thanks for playing. good night.
>>        -mo
>Dr. Robert M. ("Bob") Metcalfe
>Executive Correspondent, InfoWorld and
>VP Technology, International Data Group
>Internet Messages: bob_metcalfe at
>Voice Messages: 617-534-1215
>Conference Chairman for
>ACM97: The Next 50 Years of Computing
>San Jose Convention Center
>March 1-5, 1997

More information about the NANOG mailing list