Internic address allocation policy

Gordon Cook gcook at
Mon Mar 20 21:51:33 UTC 1995

I am told by someone with direct knowledge that all they want is some 
estimate of numbers of pops and methods of connecting them.  IE some data 
about proposed network topology and nothing more and that they pledge to 
keep this confidential.

Karl defined what was wanted in rather broader terms unless I 
misunderstood his message.  Why can't some general estimate at this 
fairly high and abstract level with geographic locations of POPS not 
precisely pin pointed  (pick the radius that suits you - 10 miles - 5- or 
50 miles) be given.  Several people directly involved in the process are 
telling me that such general and fairly abstract data is quite sufficient 
and that they absolutely do NOT want anything to do with how the ISP 
defines it future market.

Karl:  is it your point that you cannot even give general data without 
giving away more than you want about market you are pursuing?

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On Mon, 20 Mar 1995, Karl Denninger wrote:

> > 
> > On Mon, 20 Mar 1995, Karl Denninger wrote:
> > 
> > > Heh, I can lie my way through anything.  I just refuse to do so.
> > 
> > Yup.. I guess that when I drew it out in detail with only two mistakes 
> > [POPs ended up a different location than what was planned] I was lying.
> > 
> > Nope, I did not lie, and neither would you if you were to think a 
> > little.  A business plan is just that, a PLAN, and the NIC is asking for 
> > a PLAN, not a full view of the future.  If you are wrong, you are wrong.  
> > If you submit what you PLAN, that is what they are asking for.
> MCSNet's business plan is CONFIDENTIAL.  When the NIC is willing to sign a 
> $10M indemnity guarantee of non-release, standard business confidentiality
> agreements, and provide a list of EXACTLY who is viewing it, and why, 
> then I might release one.
> Until then it is none of their damn business, and that is and was my exact
> response to the request.
> >> Can I predict a year out where we will have POPs, what kind of customers will
> > > be behind those POPs, or where they will be situated and how we will route
> > > their networks for them?
> > 
> > If not, you don't have an idea of what your business is going to be 
> > doing.  As I said above, you may plan wrong, but you sure as HELL should 
> > have a plan that at least goes a year into the future.
> I have a business plan that goes *five* years out into the future, and
> nobody -- but nobody -- is ever going to see it without DAMN good 
> justification.
> > > No damn way.  No ISP in the business can possibly do that and be telling the
> > > truth.
> > 
> > I don't appreciate being called a liar, Karl.
> > 
> > They asked for a PLAN, I supplied a PLAN.
> > 
> > -abc
> > 
> >                                               Alan B. Clegg
> >                                               Information Systems Manager
> >                                               American Research Group
> Then you're a fool, almost as bad as the one who is announcing OSPF routes 
> at the MAE.
> Anyone who gives business plans out to people without iron-clad 
> confidentiality guarantees deserves to get screwed.  If your business 
> plan is "real", in that it contains the major elements of any professional 
> business plan (ie: your marketing strategies, your intended customer base,
> your growth projections and geographic interests, etc), then that 
> information is likely to be some of the most valuable that you develop
> and posess.  In fact, I would argue that your business plan is more
> important than ANY amount of technology you develop.
> If you're willing to hand that out to people, or get extorted into giving it
> out, that's your choice, but its certainly not mine, and certainly not that
> of anyone who, IMHO, has an operational brain in their head as regards
> business and how it functions.  Since you feel that it is of so little value
> that the NIC could have a copy without any signed guarantee of non-release, 
> how about you post a copy here for our edification so I know where to set my
> next few POPs -- right on top of yours.
> --
> --
> Karl Denninger (karl at MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity
> Modem: [+1 312 248-0900]     | (shell, PPP, SLIP, leased) in Chicagoland
> Voice: [+1 312 248-8649]     | 6 POPs online through Chicago, all 28.8
> Fax: [+1 312 248-9865]       | Email to "info at" for more information
> ISDN: Surf at Smokin' Speed  | WWW:, gopher:

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