Why are paper LOAs still used?
Ren Provo
ren.provo at gmail.com
Mon Feb 26 20:13:18 UTC 2024
Most important parts on the LOA are the explicit ASN, the name to be found
in the cross-connect order portal and local contact data. Contractors need
that.
Global networks rarely have a contact appropriate for provisioning in a
public facing database.
On Mon, Feb 26, 2024 at 14:50 Sean Donelan <sean at donelan.com> wrote:
> Authentication by letterhead?
>
> Paper LOAs are unauthenticated documents, not worth the paper they are
> written on. Usually FAXed, which is even less authenticatable (is that a
> word?).
>
> Prosecutors are capable of using digital documents. Do it all the time
> with echecks, credit cards, ecommerce orders and ACH payments. But LOAs
> are typically civil disputes, not criminal, when someone mistypes an IP
> address.
>
> They should verifiy the information in the paper LOA with a registry
> anyway. Since LOAs have no intrinsic value, wouldn't be worth the
> prosecutors time.
>
> Usually a salesperson or order entry clerk thinks its required because
> they've always required it. But no one in the legal department actually
> knows what to do with a LOA or how to authenticate them.
>
> Because carriers never authenticate LOAs.
>
>
> On Mon, 26 Feb 2024, Matt Erculiani wrote:
> > A paper LOA is a legally binding document, an IRR record is an IRR
> record.
> > Falsifying an LOA that is transmitted digitally is wire fraud and can
> > basically be handed right over to a DA for injunction and prosecution.
> >
> > Falsifying IRR records on the other hand leaves more work for the ISP's
> > lawyers to walk a judge (and jury) through the entire purpose and use of
> > that system, as opposed to "here's a super important sheet of paper that
> > they lied on case closed".
> >
> > -Matt
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 26, 2024 at 11:57 AM Seth Mattinen via NANOG <
> nanog at nanog.org>
> > wrote:
> > Why do companies still insist on, or deploy new systems that
> > rely on
> > paper LOA for IP and ASN resources? How can this be considered
> > more
> > trustworthy than RIR based IRR records?
> >
> > And I'm not even talking about old companies, I have a situation
> > right
> > now where a VPS provider I'm using will no longer use IRR and
> > only
> > accepts new paper LOAs. In the year 2024. I don't understand how
> > anyone
> > can go backwards like that.
> >
> > ~Seth
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Matt Erculiani
> >
> >
>
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