CenturyLink Fiber Latency Issues (Seattle, WA)

Sat Nov 6 18:19:17 UTC 2021

Respectfully, if you start broaching topics like suing your residential ISP
because a "best effort" no SLA last mile GPON service doesn't meet the same
performance as a 1GbE active-E symmetric 1310/LR hand off for a server in a
datacenter, the most likely thing you're going to get is dropped by the ISP
entirely.

I know that's what I would recommend if I were your ISP and you threatened
lawsuits at my customer service representatives. "Sorry, but as of
$DATE_30_DAYS_IN_FUTURE we will no longer be able to meet your needs and
will discontinue service and billing for $YOUR_ACCOUNT_NUMBER".

On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 2:59 PM Neel Chauhan <neel at neelc.org> wrote:

> My OPNsense box has a really large NAT table, more than there are IPv4
> ports, presumably due to the way FreeBSD's pf works. CenturyLink's
> routers are worse in this regard since NAT tables are small.
>
> Even if I were to run Tor on my CenturyLink connection, my neighbors are
> affected as well. When I was running Tor at "full speed" with these
> spikes, neighbors had truck rolls.
>
> I have ordered Verizon "LTE Home" as a temporary "workaround", namely to
> move my Wi-Fi traffic to it while I restart Tor. The reason for this is
> to force neighbors to put in repair tickets to force a GPON capacity
> increase.
>
> It's not nice to my neighbors, but I don't **realy** have another option
> (even running Tor I don't want to make it too unbearablel for
> neighbors). Maybe the other options are to (a) pay $329/mo for Comcast
> Gigabit Pro and get stuck in a 2-year contract and a steep install fee
> or (b) litigate that I could lose since I'm not a lawyer and don't have
> a J.D. from Harvard Law School specializing in telecom law, both which
> are impractical and expensive.
>
> I was about to sue CenturyLink in small claims, but instead decided to
> get Verizon LTE Home for 2 months while CenturyLink "fixes" their fiber
> network while restarting Tor there. Have the neighbors put in service
> requests to force CL to fix their network, but don't put in a request
> myself so the "solution" won't be to blame me.
>
> While I may have to worry about an ETF with LTE Home, it's cheaper than
> Gigabit Pro, and of $300 for two months including ETF is still cheaper
> than $329/mo for two years.
>
> It's a gamble but may pay off.
>
> -Neel
>
> On 2021-11-03 07:00, TJ Trout wrote:
> > I second this, most best effort Broadband cpe equipment will choke
> > with lots of concurrent connections
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 2, 2021, 8:25 PM P C <pc50000 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> If this is connection count related only, It is most likely an issue
> >> with the CPE (router), NAT table, or similar.
> >>
> >> On Tue, Nov 2, 2021 at 8:21 AM Neel Chauhan <neel at neelc.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I tried that back in September, it didn't work. It doesn't happen
> >>> on my
> >>> hop but the one after that. Even a second GPON connection shows
> >>> the
> >>> issues if one is running the offending traffic.
> >>>
> >>> The issue occurs even if I'm using 50 Mbps out of my 940.
> >>>
> >>> It may be bufferbloat on CL's side but they keep denying the
> >>> issue.
> >>>
> >>> I guess I'll have to break the bank and get Comcast Gigabit Pro.
> >>>
> >>> CenturyLink should just get bought out by another telco, like how
> >>> Cablevision got bought by Altice.
> >>>
> >>> -Neel
> >>>
> >>> On 2021-11-01 20:52, Ryan Hamel wrote:
> >>>> Neel,
> >>>>
> >>>> Sounds like buffer bloat.
> >>>>
> >>>> Run a speed test, whatever is your maximum for your download and
> >>> upload
> >>>> take
> >>>> 10% away from it, and setup traffic shaping in OPNsense
> >>>> (https://docs.opnsense.org/manual/shaping.html) with those
> >>> values. If
> >>>> the
> >>>> issue goes away, then you're exceeding the buffer of
> >>> CenturyLink's
> >>>> device
> >>>> with the bursts of traffic.
> >>>>
> >>>> Ryan
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: NANOG <nanog-bounces+ryan=rkhtech.org at nanog.org> On Behalf
> >>> Of
> >>>> Neel
> >>>> Chauhan
> >>>> Sent: Monday, November 1, 2021 6:44 PM
> >>>> To: nanog at nanog.org
> >>>> Subject: CenturyLink Fiber Latency Issues (Seattle, WA)
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi NANOG Mailing List,
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't know if any of you work at CenturyLink/Lumen, very less
> >>> on
> >>>> their
> >>>> Fiber network in Seattle, WA. However, here's my story.
> >>>>
> >>>> If I attempt to run certain applications that use 1000, or 10000
> >>> TCP
> >>>> connections, I get latency spikes. It is based on how many
> >>> connections,
> >>>> but
> >>>> also how much bandwidth is used. This means certain things like
> >>> Tor
> >>>> relays
> >>>> are off limits to me (which I wish to run).
> >>>>
> >>>> On an idle connection, the PingPlotter outputs look like this:
> >>>> https://centurylinklatencyissues.com/image-000.png
> >>>>
> >>>> If I attempt to run BitTorrent with 1000 connections in Deluge,
> >>>> PingPlotter
> >>>> looks like this:
> >>>> https://centurylinklatencyissues.com/image-002.png
> >>>>
> >>>> Getting support, or even executive contacts to admit the issue
> >>> hasn't
> >>>> worked. They all love to blame my equipment or applications,
> >>> when CL
> >>>> routers
> >>>> also show the issue when I run the same things whereas my same
> >>> exact
> >>>> OPNsense box on Google Fiber Webpass running Tor at another
> >>> address had
> >>>> no
> >>>> issues whatsoever, and I can ping other Tor relays on
> >>> CenturyLink AS209
> >>>> just
> >>>> fine (from a VPS).
> >>>>
> >>>> The most competent person I dealt with was actually one tech. He
> >>> told
> >>>> me
> >>>> there was "capacity issues" in our neighborhood, and that's the
> >>> reason
> >>>> for
> >>>> the issues. However, nothing was done about it afterwards, I'm
> >>> guessing
> >>>> since I turned off my Tor relay after the visit to avoid
> >>> complaints
> >>>> from
> >>>> family members.
> >>>>
> >>>> On an AT&T forum, people have said GPON gives latency
> >>> spikes/packet
> >>>> loss on
> >>>> congestion:
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
> https://www.dslreports.com/forum/r33242889-How-rare-is-GPON-XGSPON-saturatio
> >>>> n
> >>>>
> >>>> The capacity managers in Seattle are literally dragging their
> >>> feet:
> >>>> it's
> >>>> 100x worse than AT&T's 802.1X. I know AT&T and CenturyLink don't
> >>>
> >>>> compete,
> >>>> but if I had to choose between AT&T Fiber and CenturyLink, I'll
> >>> take
> >>>> AT&T in
> >>>> a heartbeat, no ifs, no buts, even if I have to use AT&T's
> >>> crappy
> >>>> router
> >>>> instead of my OPNsense box.
> >>>>
> >>>> Going back, do any of you who work at CenturyLink/Lumen can get
> >>> me to
> >>>> the
> >>>> right people, hopefully the capacity managers in Seattle?
> >>>>
> >>>> I could go with Comcast, but it's either (a) 35 Mbps uploads or
> >>> (b)
> >>>> $329/mo
> >>>> for "Gigabit Pro" with a 2-year contract and a steep install
> >>> fee. I am
> >>>> seriously considering Gigabit Pro even if it breaks the bank,
> >>> but hope
> >>>> I
> >>>> won't have to go there.
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't need 2 Gbps and would rather pay $65 than $329. 300-500
> >>> Mbps
> >>>> uploads
> >>>> when I need it is the sweet spot for me (even without Tor) which
> >>> CL
> >>>> GPON
> >>>> should easily handle without a sweat. I also don't exactly
> >>>> **trust** Comcast, they're a horrible company in many metrics,
> >>> but in
> >>>> some
> >>>> ways Comcast is more competent than CenturyLink.
> >>>>
> >>>> Best,
> >>>>
> >>>> Neel Chauhan
>
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